Experiencing 'proof'

[Cyberman]

Drich, it's not primarily a question of mockery, though that will probably follow depending on the outrageousness of the 'proof' presented (in other words, say something that people find funny and you shouldn't act surprised when they laugh). Even if your dreams are indeed evidence of any god communicating with you, you have no way of demonstrating that. From the anecdotes you provide, their quality as well as their content, we can draw certain conclusions; the most polite of which is that any god that chooses to communicate in a way that is indistinguishable from a bog-standard dream is one that probably doesn't care if its followers are mocked.

[Something completely different]

funny how he opened this thread and then went offline, as if his subconciousness was screaming from the back of his head:"turn it off now!" "so you dont have to whitness your own humiliation!"

[Cato]

Drich,

Please take a step back and realize what is going on here. I don't doubt your experiences. Others have shared events in their lives that can be described as dreams, dream paralysis, remarkable coincidences, etc. The difference is that most of us here accept natural explanations for similar experiences as more reasonable; whereas, you endeavor to shoehorn god into the events you describe. When confronted with non-God explanations you simply dismiss them by saying the rest of us haven't properly prepared the path for god into our lives, or something similar.

The fact remains that you see, hear, feel, taste, and smell God in everything because you desire God to be in everything, not because you can properly attribute all life's events to a single causal agent.

[Anomalocaris]

Even if your dreams are indeed evidence of any god communicating with you, you have no way of demonstrating that.

It is perhaps even more important to point out that, not only has he no way to demonstrate that to anyone else, he really has provided not even a theoretical way to demonstrate it to HIMSELF.

All he has is "I WANT TO INTERPRETE MY DREAM THE WAY I WANT TO, AND IF I WANT TO INTERPRET IT AS KEY TO HEAVEN AND EAETH, THEN IT IS, WITHOUT ANY ADDITIONAL SUPPORT".

If his short coming is merely an inability to demonstrate anything to someone outside his head, but could enounciation a theretical method to demonstrate it internally, then we might merely suggest he keep to himself. The fact that he has shown no inclination to provide any demonstration to even himself, makes him supremely mockery worthy.

[Simon Moon]

In my last few thread their have been those who would mock experience as any type of validation of God, or they mock the idea that anyone could have experienced anything differently than what their 'efforts' have yielded.

There are 1 billion Hindus and 1.5 billion Muslims on earth. Many of them claim they have personal experiences with their god. Not to mention all the other religions and gods humanity believes in, or claims of alien abductions, encounters with ghosts, Jinn and dozens of other supernatural beings.

Do you give them any credence that their personal experiences are what they claim they are?

Unless there is a method of separating a real experience from an imagined one, there is no reason to believe you when you claim the creator of the universe communicated with you in your mind.

It is very easy to fool the human mind. Especially when intense emotion is involved,

[Welsh cake]

Well, first of all Drich, before you get to rant about personal experience and so on.

#1. What the fuck do you mean by "god"?

And, #2. Why should I give two fucks?

[CapnAwesome]

Are you telling me that God doesn't want to have absolute proof of him, but he drops (poor) hints that he exists and what he wants, with the consequence being eternal torture if we don't figure out his poorly placed hints?

Also it's interesting that you ballyhoo about being mocked because your spiritual experience doesn't match those of people here, but then go on to claim that infact God is revealing himself to all of us in similar ways. In fact he goes through, in your words, "great lengths" to prove his existence to all of us, essentially saying that we all have had some experience like yours (which based on your previous post, sounds like old hag syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis)

This is clearly not true. God has never revealed himself to me in any meaningful way. I have never had what you can call a spiritual experience, although I don't deny their existence, I just believe they have a natural explanation originating in the brain.

[Angrboda]

ps. Kali thinks you're stupid. She told me so herself.

[Cinjin]

Your "work" here is done.

[Strongbad]

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In my last few thread their have been those who would mock experience as any type of validation of God, or they mock the idea that anyone could have experienced anything differently than what their 'efforts' have yielded.

If this were an accurate way to assess experience then those with years of practical real world experience would make no greater impact as an employee as someone fresh out of school. Experience can be an asset or it can be a hindrance depending on how it is used. Personal work experience, like personal God experience does not generally transfer from person to person. (I can not pass my 22 years of work history over to the new guy and have him be able to produce what i produce, like wise I can not simply share what God has done for me and it mean the same thing to you.) God does this by design. In that if we had absolute proof of God we would have no other choice but to bow down and worship Him. God has given us the freedom to make decide for ourselves whether or not we want anything to do with Him or not. In order for Him to do this we had to have a way to know God as deeply as our understanding would allow, but at the same time also allow those who did not want to know God the freedom to deny Him.

Which is why I say, if my experiences of God matched what many of you claimed to have found, then i would most likely have the same take on God as you have. God has done some pretty extraordinary things in my life, and he continues to do so. But it was not always like this. I had to learn to submit myself to God in order to see and hear what He has done for me. i say that because looking back, even when I was not a believer, I dismissed everything God has done for me to some sort of observable phenomena.
Just because we can put a name on the process which God has used does not mean God can not use that process. Remember The God of the bible is the God of the Natural universe, so it is only natural that He use the processes (Science) He created to accomplish what He sets out to do. That said God is not bound by these processes. He can circumvent them if He wishes to do so, but at the same time is not bound by some sort 'magic clause.'

The Idea of a magic/mystical God came out of the dark ages. Where God by decree of the pope God Had to be completely unknowable by everyone but the church/pope. The fact of the matter is He is not unknowable, infact He goes through great lengths, so we can infact know God. That is why I harp on Luke 11 and A/S/K so much. God literally offers to come and work in your life, and show you the 'proof' YOU need to establish a solid faith. However their is a catch. You have to do things his way, and if you want these experiences to increase you have to be faithful to what he has shown you already.

Meaning If God shows you a deal breaking sin in your life that is keeping Him from fully working with you, and you do nothing about it then know, that the 'guilt' you feel is all you will ever know of the Holy Spirit. Now, if you are faithful to what He has shown you and you continue to a/s/k then you will be given More to work with. God will take whatever you put into this relationship and turn over 10 fold, if you take the 10 He will inturn multiply that blessing 10 more times. God has no upper limit, so whatever you experience is only limited by what you are willing to give of yourself.

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