My journey to atheism

[Mark 13:13]

one thing at a time . im exploring those heracies first

ROFL OK then.

http://franciscan-anglican.com/An_Explan...canism.pdf

The Saints
There is some diversity of thought and practice in regard to the saints within the Anglican tradition. However, most
Anglicans would agree that we don't and should not "pray" to the saints (prayer is offered to God alone, indeed God
alone can be the recipient of prayer). And it goes without saying that the worship of the saints is idolatry and
absolutely not allowed. However, this does not mean that we cannot commune with the saints; in fact, we can
always ask them for their prayers and intercessions.

2 problems with that - 1. it's from an Episcopal source not an Anglican one (we tend to disagree with and distance ourselves from the Episcopal Church), 2. it's from a female priest - I and many other Anglicans, and all Catholics, reject women priests. And yes we're allowed to disagree on these things, that's what makes our denomination more flexible and less constrained, for better or for worse. It's heretical to talk to ANY dead people.

I think it is very much the Catholic position except that to avoid the negative association and confusion with the words "praying to" the word commune is used. We Catholics would be wise to do likewise as it would make our position clearer; in reality it is identical but I would agree not every professing Catholic understands the boundaries of their own faith but if questioned would retreat to the stated Anglican/proper Catholic position. Aren't words fantastic for getting ideas across and also so wonderful at confusing them. So although it rolls of the tongue easier to say I pray to St Joseph this gives a false impression of what I believe I know i'm doing when I should say I commune with St Joseph and ask for his prayers and intercessions on behalf of whatever i'm praying about ( oops meditating on ).

That's not your position at all. You position is that dead saints perform miracles. It’s a part of the beautification process. Your position is completely inconsistent with 1 Timothy 2:5.

Other Sacramental Rites
Other rites that have evolved in the Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit include:
• Holy Matrimony (the blessing of a marriage)
• Ordination (the setting apart of individuals for ministry) 7
• Reconciliation (confession of sin)
• Confirmation (an adult commitment to Christ following baptism)
• Unction of the sick (anointing and praying for sick)
• Extreme Unction (prayers and blessings just before death)
Of course, God is not limited to these rites alone, there are innumerable ways that God reaches out and touches us

I think you mean that "evolved in the RCC under the guidance of the heretical RCC councils" not the Holy Spirit... oh and you're a Catholic and you just claimed that Extreme Unction = "prayers and blessings just before death". That's not the correct definition, and you should be the one defending it if I were to say that's the definition. Even the Catholic church moved on from “Last Rites”! Extreme Unction is for the living, it is for the SICK not specifically the dying, it is performed by a priest and he has to use "holy oil" - that is oil that has been "blessed" by a bishop because you think the healing power is in the oil. It's an heretical sacrament. There are only two sacraments that we recognize: baptism and marriage. Communion isn't a sacrament and it has no healing power.

As for confession I suggest you read James 5:16 and explain to me where it says to confess to clergy. And then when you've done that, read James 13-15 and tell me where it says that only clergy are to anoint the sick with the oil, and while you're at it explain where it says to bless the oil or where it says that healing power is in the oil and not in prayer.

Purgatory from my brief reads (as im rushing no "HOBBITS" calling.) i would say your position is probably standard for the Anglican but I would suggest not non-negotionable if we were to define Purgatory as we understand it now as the short discussion in this link suggests
http://gladtobeanglican.blogspot.co.uk/2...lican.html.

Don't think in my approach i'm taking your position lightly or underestimate the value of your private study and thinking I don't; even if sometimes I can come across as abrasive. When I returned after 20 years to my own RC only then did I realise how little I knew about my own faith traditions and my own misconceptions. Its hard in one life time to assimilate the scholarship of many generations, but there is growth in the journey and I wish you positive growth that you can then share with others.

You've confused me, - you don't believe in purgatory?

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"That's not your position at all. You position is that dead saints perform miracles. It’s a part of the beautification process. Your position is completely inconsistent with 1 Timothy 2:5."

Well that's a surprise to me; i never knew that's what i believed until now you've told me what I believe.

http://catholiceducation.org/articles/facts/fm0032.html
Traditionally understood, a miracle is a supernatural sign or wonder, brought about by God, signifying His glory and the salvation of mankind. As a sign, a miracle is perceived by the senses and makes present the supernatural order, God's governance of nature, and His loving plan of salvation. Miracles are a call to faith.

http://www.catholic.org/saints/faq.php
Since miracles are considered proof that the person is in heaven and can intercede for us, the miracle must take place after the candidate's death and as a result of a specific petition to the candidate.

"Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else, believe because of the works themselves. Truly I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and will do greater ones than these, because I am going to the Father. And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son" John 14:11-14

Now i'm really confused I don't know what I believe. I call myself a catholic but you say I believe something my Church doesn't preach

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Of course I must discuss who these dead people are?

He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive." Luke 20:38

[Aractus]

Well that's a surprise to me; i never knew that's what i believed until now you've told me what I believe.

You're welcome!

[Norfolk And Chance]

How do you guys reconcile an all loving god with millions of starving children in Africa? I've always wondered how you pull that one off and keep your faith?

Maybe he just doesn't love Africans.

[Whateverist]

Nice to know that even if a theist could offer a convincing proof of a god's existence, they still would not be able to agree on what that god wants of us. Frankly I appreciate having that out in the open. I've been on forums where the theist participants collude to present a unified front and mildly chide each other if either transgresses the terms of their pact.

By the way, a convincing proof of a god's existence would have to begin with an explicit definition of what a god is exactly, something I've never been clear on.