Bald Prophets are Dangerous

[Cinjin]

Apparently I'm ready for my monthly dose of apologist's greasy sophistry because I'm putting this out there for Drich and his brothers-in-christ to show off their artful gymnastics. (not really)


Don't piss off a guy who's in good with an angry god. Damn Elisha, was this really necessary?!?

2 Kings 2:23-24
(KJV and NIV)

23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

Not only is god's prophet apparently extremely vain, but god endorsed it. Elisha didn't send the bears ... his god did. Do you think all 42 of those kids were equally guilty? You have to guess that quite a few of them just happened to be there and weren't really conspirators, and even if they ALL were mocking the old dude, did they really deserve that?

Also, can anyone tell me how only two bears can maul 42 people?? Seems unlikely doesn't it? I mean even if a bear could somehow manage to maul three at a time it seems like quite an exaggeration.

My point is that there's no getting outta this one clean. If god did this, he's reprehensible and loathsome. If god didn't do this, than his prophet is loathsome and in turn he still looks horrible. If it's not true than you have to explain why this "one part of the Bible" is not true. If it's an exaggeration of the mauling the bears did than you still have to explain why.


Ruling: The story is false and the guy who wrote it might have been bald and possibly angry at his kids at the time.

[Minimalist]

Perhaps while they are at it they can answer the age-old question: Does a bear shit in the woods?

[Cinjin]

Perhaps while they are at it they can answer the age-old question: Does a bear shit in the woods?

Only if Elisha gets mad at the grass.

[Brian37]

Perhaps while they are at it they can answer the age-old question: Does a bear shit in the woods?

Or better yet, is Rush Limbaugh full of shit?

[John V]

1. The words translated "children" are used in other parts of the OT for males in their teens and twenties. We don't know how old they were.

2. You focus on baldness and miss the "Go up." Elisha's mentor Elijah had recently been taken up to heaven. They were taunting him to do the same, i.e. taunting him specifically for his position as prophet of God.

3. Your observation that it's difficult to picture two bears mauling 42 of them is interesting. I took a look at the word translated "tare." The word is elsewhere translated as "divide," as with the Red Sea, and also "break through" and "breach." That picture makes more sense: Elisha is on the road, 42 young men block his path and taunt him, and the bears come and break through or divide them, allowing Elisha to pass.

4. You're right - don't mess with God.

[ThatMuslimGuy]

Thats was a pretty sweet reply in my opinion. Thanks for the info. Id always known this passage and never known a way to get an explanation. But you sir.

[Minimalist]

1. The words translated "children" are used in other parts of the OT for males in their teens and twenties. We don't know how old they were.

2. You focus on baldness and miss the "Go up." Elisha's mentor Elijah had recently been taken up to heaven. They were taunting him to do the same, i.e. taunting him specifically for his position as prophet of God.

3. Your observation that it's difficult to picture two bears mauling 42 of them is interesting. I took a look at the word translated "tare." The word is elsewhere translated as "divide," as with the Red Sea, and also "break through" and "breach." That picture makes more sense: Elisha is on the road, 42 young men block his path and taunt him, and the bears come and break through or divide them, allowing Elisha to pass.

4. You're right - don't mess with God.

So let me get this straight. When you don't like what your book says you simply invent new words for your god to say. Convenient.

◄ 2 Kings 2:24 ►
New International Version (©1984)
He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Elisha turned around and looked at them, and he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of them.

English Standard Version (©2001)
And he turned around, and when he saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. And two she-bears came out of the woods and tore forty-two of the boys.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
When he looked behind him and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two female bears came out of the woods and tore up forty-two lads of their number.

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
He turned around, looked at them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two female bears came out of the woods and mauled 42 of the children.

International Standard Version (©2012)
He looked behind him, took note of the young men, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. Suddenly two female bears emerged from the woods and mauled 42 of the young men.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Looking back, he saw them and cursed them in the LORD's name. Two bears came out of the woods and tore 42 of these youths apart.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tore forty and two of the youths.

American King James Version
And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

American Standard Version
And he looked behind him and saw them, and cursed them in the name of Jehovah. And there came forth two she-bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two lads of them.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And looking back, he saw them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord: and there came forth two bears out of the forest, and tore of them two and forty boys.

Darby Bible Translation
And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of Jehovah. And there came forth two she-bears out of the wood, and tore forty-two children of them.

English Revised Version
And he looked behind him and saw them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she-bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

Webster's Bible Translation
And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tore forty and two children of them.

World English Bible
He looked behind him and saw them, and cursed them in the name of Yahweh. Two female bears came out of the woods, and mauled forty-two of those youths.

Young's Literal Translation
And he looketh behind him, and seeth them, and declareth them vile in the name of Jehovah, and two bears come out of the forest, and rend of them forty and two lads.

Now a handful do you the word "tare" however this merely seems to be:

tare
[tair] Show IPA
verb, Archaic.
simple past tense and past participle of tear .

[Brakeman]

Don't blame John V, the holy spirit told him to lie.

[Cinjin]

1. The words translated "children" are used in other parts of the OT for males in their teens and twenties. We don't know how old they were.

I see. O wait, no I don't. The passage in YOUR bible clearly states LITTLE children. Even more odd that you choose to defend your Bible in such a way ... As if allowing bears to maul anyone over the age of 18 is somehow completely acceptable.

2. You focus on baldness and miss the "Go up." Elisha's mentor Elijah had recently been taken up to heaven. They were taunting him to do the same, i.e. taunting him specifically for his position as prophet of God.

Umm, yeah and how does taunting someone's claim to flying into the sky somehow warrant being mauled by wild animals? It doesn't. Also, not every version of your bible says "go up." That's an apologist's filthy excuse and not even your fellow christards will agree to all your "translations."

3. Your observation that it's difficult to picture two bears mauling 42 of them is interesting. I took a look at the word translated "tare." The word is elsewhere translated as "divide," as with the Red Sea, and also "break through" and "breach." That picture makes more sense: Elisha is on the road, 42 young men block his path and taunt him, and the bears come and break through or divide them, allowing Elisha to pass.

Min answered this satisfactorily. All I can add is that your excuse is more unsubstantiated mental gymnastics.

4. You're right - don't mess with God.

Yes, I agree. If he was real, he was a real piece of shit. I wouldn't mess with him either. What kind of sadistic fuck writes in his own book that he kills LITTLE CHILDREN (his words) with wild bears?!? Now that's what I call evil.

Thats was a pretty sweet reply in my opinion. Thanks for the info. Id always known this passage and never known a way to get an explanation. But you sir.

What a shock. One brainwashed zealot approves the ridiculous notions of another brainwashed zealot.

[Minimalist]

Someone needs to tell him he's full of shit.


Guess that's my job.