Premiering Tonight

[festive1]

For those with HBO, Mea Maxima Culpa: Silence in the House of God. A documentary about a pedophile priest and how the Church covered it up... Here's a link to the trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSstCtWl54w

Thoughts? Beating a dead horse? Shining light on a very serious issue? Will this cause more people to leave the Church? I think it'll be interesting to watch one way or another.

[Drich]

Until that church addresses this issue it is a serious issue and should be brought to light, and those involved with the actual sexual activity along with those who cover this type of stuff up should be held accountable to whatever local laws they fall under.

[Dee Dee Ramone]

Is there any proof that the abuse by priests can be linked to the celibacy?

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Until that church addresses this issue it is a serious issue and should be brought to light, and those involved with the actual sexual activity along with those who cover this type of stuff up should be held accountable to whatever local laws they fall under.

Eastern and Christmas on the same day, we agree Drich.

[Minimalist]

Beating a dead horse?

If only the horse was dead.

[festive1]

Until that church addresses this issue it is a serious issue and should be brought to light, and those involved with the actual sexual activity along with those who cover this type of stuff up should be held accountable to whatever local laws they fall under.

Well, that's just it isn't it? Ratzinger, the current Pope... well I don't know what his position was exactly, but before he was Pope all the sex abuse accusations were compiled by his office. The Vatican certainly isn't going to try the Pope in court. Can and how do governments bring charges against the Pope?

[Drich]

Until that church addresses this issue it is a serious issue and should be brought to light, and those involved with the actual sexual activity along with those who cover this type of stuff up should be held accountable to whatever local laws they fall under.

Well, that's just it isn't it? Ratzinger, the current Pope... well I don't know what his position was exactly, but before he was Pope all the sex abuse accusations were compiled by his office. The Vatican certainly isn't going to try the Pope in court. Can and how do governments bring charges against the Pope?

Someone needs to just nut up and indict him and everyone involved.

[festive1]

But the Pope is god on earth... At least that's how Catholics see him. How do you indict god? I'm currently having fun thoughts about indicting god for all the murders, rapes, wars, etc. carried out in his name... teehee! Various jurisdictions have had enough difficulty just getting the Church to release records, imagine the shit storm if they were pressing charges against the Pope... The Vatican would not extradite him for trial. He wouldn't see the inside of a courtroom, let alone have to serve his sentence... Since he is seen as god by Catholics, what right does a court of man have to judge him?
Personally, I agree with you. He should be indicted, tried, and convicted. But practically speaking, it's not going to happen.

[Drich]

But the Pope is god on earth... At least that's how Catholics see him.

One starts with the street level offenders, get them to turn on the leutinents, leutinents on the captians and on up the ladder like any other criminal organization, until you get to the top of the corruption.

indict How do you indict god? I'm currently having fun thoughts about indicting god for all the murders, rapes, wars, etc. carried out in his name... teehee!

Good luck with that one.

Various jurisdictions have had enough difficulty just getting the Church to release records, imagine the shit storm if they were pressing charges against the Pope...

That's from a top down perspective. What I am suggesting is a bottom to top approach.

The Vatican would not extradite him for trial. He wouldn't see the inside of a courtroom, let alone have to serve his sentence...

So they said about Manuel Antonio Noriega are you old enough to remember what happened to him?

Since he is seen as god by Catholics, what right does a court of man have to judge him?

Does God condone Child Rape in the bible? If no then their is a distinct difference between The God of the bible and the guy who has people fooled that he is a god.
If he is not the god of the bible "then cry havoic and let loose the dogs of war."
-General Chang

Personally, I agree with you. He should be indicted, tried, and convicted. But practically speaking, it's not going to happen.

The Vatican is not a self sustaining city/state. Impose sanctions like we would with anyother leader/country that has committed crimes against Humanity, and wait them out. Once all the offenders have been convicted allow them to reset and try again.

[Esquilax]

But the Pope is god on earth... At least that's how Catholics see him. How do you indict god? I'm currently having fun thoughts about indicting god for all the murders, rapes, wars, etc. carried out in his name... teehee! Various jurisdictions have had enough difficulty just getting the Church to release records, imagine the shit storm if they were pressing charges against the Pope... The Vatican would not extradite him for trial. He wouldn't see the inside of a courtroom, let alone have to serve his sentence... Since he is seen as god by Catholics, what right does a court of man have to judge him?
Personally, I agree with you. He should be indicted, tried, and convicted. But practically speaking, it's not going to happen.

On the one hand, I completely agree with you, and I think that should charges ever come against the Pope it'd pretty much go like that, but at the same time, part of me is thinking of just how goddamn ominous that would end up looking.

Not just because resisting a criminal charge with pure obstinacy looks suspicious on its own, but could you imagine how that would look? Secular groups would definitely go nuts, but wouldn't avoiding those charges be a PR nightmare for the church, just as it has been when this has happened for lower level preachers? I can't imagine "Pope believes himself above the law," coming across as anything but bad for the Vatican.

Hell, maybe that's just idealism on my part. I can imagine certain segments of Catholicism, large ones even, siding with the Pope there. But the world isn't all Catholic, thank god.

[festive1]

After watching the documentary... well, I thought it was pretty damning. It presented evidence that Ratzinger knew of specific cases, yet failed to even have even internal charges brought against some priests, because they were under the protection of the last Pope. So the scandal does go to the highest levels of the Vatican, without a doubt. It did actually go into the whole, "the Pope is god on earth" thing and explained that yes, the Pope is held above human laws and not subject to them in the eyes of the Church. One person interviewed (a human rights lawyer from Britain) suggested the best way to go about charging the Pope is in international court for human rights violations. It also explained that this is far from a new problem. The Vatican has records of child sexual abuse going back to the 4th century. In the 1960's they opened facilities to treat pedophile priests. However, they ignored all evidence (including their own psychologists) that pedophiles are going to reoffend and refused to remove their access to children. They are still doing this. Reports are starting to come in from Africa and Asia about sexual abuse by priests. My favorite stat from this documentary?? 50% of priests are not celibate (possibly just American priests, my memory is failing me). Not that 50% are having sex with children, but 50% are having sex with someone... The Vatican knows this and simply doesn't care, it's been going on for centuries.
But all of this is stuff pretty much everyone knows, if not in detail. Should the Pope and the Church be charged? Yes. But actually doing it is much trickier than it would seem.