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[Violet]

As far as I am aware, my ideas have only been refuted by statements of 'it is not realistic', or 'impossible'. I've not yet seen any reasonable refutations...

But those are reasonable refutations. If your ideas are impractical ie not realistic or impossible then they fail a basic necessity of being unworkable.

On the contrary... suggesting that evolution is untrue is an unreasonable refutation. Suggesting that comets are 'space-rocks' was an unreasonable refutation. Both of these were once just ideas... look where they have gone from there. Many of my ideas are not feasible... this is true. But to declare them not feasible just because we do not know of a good way to implement them yet? That is arguing from ignorance.

@Rhizo: We are far more beautiful and unique than snowflakes Snowflakes aren't people... and people truly are gems worth treasuring

[Edwardo Piet]

Yeah they are. People are gems. I like people - and if they don't like that then they can fuck off

EvF

[fr0d0]

Many of my ideas are not feasible... this is true. But to declare them not feasible just because we do not know of a good way to implement them yet? That is arguing from ignorance.

Without implementation they are useless. I didn't suggest they weren't interesting or unimaginative, just presently unworkable. They belong on the shelf with my certificate of land ownership on Mars.

[Eilonnwy]

Saerules, I have not contradicted myself. I have been consistent on my stance. Saying maturity depends on age does not say people are clones. You are making a completely false analogy.

I also take offense at your comparison to Hitler. MILLIONS of people died because of Hitler. Millions. Live the holocaust then tell me an age line is akin to Hitler. You're so far off the mark you can't even see it.

You employ nothing but logical fallacies and refuse to concede any point made against your argument when I've repeatedly shown it's unrealistic and others have agreed.

Stubbornly stick to your ideas, that's fine, but that doesn't make you right.

And you made this argument about you when you insisted that a severe injustice was done to you and then you refuse to explain why. Sorry, but we can't simply take your word for it. Either explain yourself or stop referring to it. You can't have it both ways if you want to convince us of anything.

[Violet]

Your stance IS contradictory. People MUST ALL BE clones if their maturity depends on their age. Maturity depends on EXPERIENCE... you may obtain this while aging... but time will only tell you how long you have lived.

You take offense at my comparison to Hitler... because MILLIONS died because of him? How many people die in a month because of unfair governing systems? At least as many. I compare you to Hitler for defending such ideals. I compare you to Hitler for believing yourself to hold the greater good. I compare you to Hitler for being able to draw people's rights based upon arbitrary and meaningless details (age, ethnicity, sex, etc.). Your offense at being compared to him, while you share so much common ground with him, is very strange. You are not evil at heart, Eilon... and you are not Hitler... but some things you say remind me of his regime.

There are no points for me to concede. I have my footing upon firm, secure, simple, fundamental logic... and in experience far beyond what I should have. I know what I have said is difficult to implement... but it is not unrealistic. Anyone who honestly thinks fairness is unrealistic... needs a reality check.

When I show you the lack of logic and reason behind everything you declare 'not contradictory', you only get defensive, and arrogant. That others are also defensive towards logic is no fault of mine, and I am done trying to teach a brick wall. I will stubbornly stick to logic, for as long as I live Eilon... and as so: I will always be more right than those who's only evidence is that they think logic unrealistic.

It is not hard to know a list of people unjustly served by our current system... Eilon. All you need to remember is this statement: Until an emancipation is granted by a court, a minor is still subject to the rules of their parents or guardians.

Certainly you don't think that just?

[Rhizomorph13]

And because of Godwin's law you automatically lose this argument.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Comparing someone to Hitler, the ultimate example of the ad hominem fallacy.

Rhizo

[Violet]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum

I was actually comparing equivalent statements and ideals. I do not condemn any action because another once acted... I condemn actions because they are fundamentally unfair. Hitler performed actions that were both unfair and evil... that he performed them does not make the actions any more or less unfair/evil.

My point of comparison, was that Eilon is using the same unfair and evil ideals that Hitler advocated 'for the greater good'... but that unlike Hitler: she does not have an evil heart. I am comparing what she says to Hitler... not who she is to Hitler. I apologize if you thought I meant to do otherwise... I thought myself quite clear upon this point (if you'll note the bold?).

[Meatball]

Anyone who honestly thinks fairness is unrealistic... needs a reality check.

In a fair world everyone would have a meal on their plate, every day. Is this realistic?
In a fair world, nobody would have to work harder than someone else for less money. Is this realistic?

You're making a fool out of yourself by beating this dead horse. We don't have magical maturity indices. We won't have magical maturity indices because it's absurd and impractical.

Age restrictions work. They work damn well. Age restrictions are not a human rights violation.

Show an example of when an age restriction is a human rights violation.

[Violet]

Both of those are very realistic. My ideas are sensible, and many of them practical. That the best way of implementation is not yet known = unrealistic, is arguing from ignorance. That we have not established such a degree of fairness = unrealistic, is arguing from establishment.

That I am unable to tell you my personal examples of how age restrictions don't work... is an argument from silence.

However, as I thought we had concluded in the Poll: minors seeking abortion thread: there are a number of times when this restriction becomes a human rights violation. For example: when the would be mother is forced by the 'guardian' to have, or to abort, the unborn. o.o

Why is this a rights violation? Because those beneath this age restriction: are literally slaves to their 'guardian(s)'. Is "Until an emancipation is granted by a court, a minor is still subject to the rules of their parents or guardians." not a rights violation where you come from? I believe we call that slavery. Is slavery not a human rights violation, Meatball?

[Meatball]

It's not slavery, and for you to suggest that is a slap in the face to the generations of people who were actually enslaved.

If parents treat their children like slaveholders treat slaves, then the state (Yes, the same state that declares they are subjected to the rules of their parents) will remedy the situation.

If you think parents being responsible for their children is akin to slavery, you are the one in need of a reality check, and you obviously aren't mature enough to be considered a legal adult.