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Is Ascension possible without a spiritual guide?
#1
Is Ascension possible without a spiritual guide?
Part of my szhizophrenia was that I would hallucinate spiritual vision, and amongst that, was a re-occuring vision of who I thought was the Guide of humanity of his time, mainly the 12th Imam, the Mahdi.

The first vision I had of them was showing me spiritually how to perform Salah, it's different then physical appearance in that you see the spirit behind the action of each part of Salah.

Now here is the issue. While I knew I got sick, I thought it was due to me not handling the spiritual experience well. But because Shiite Mystics taught that Imams spiritually guide and appear to their followers, I thought for sure I had vision of the Imams.

Now I've been thinking. Is spiritual ascension possible without an example to follow, a guide to imitate at each stage, showing you the spirit needed to ascend to the next stage?

When we learn things, we usually learn through a teacher, and application through a guide essentially.

Imam Khomeini said "It's been proven in the divine/spiritual sciences that the ascension/return is only through the perfect man".

The Quran says "And is upon God to show you the way, and there is many differing ways..."

I think Freemasons believe in "Spiritual Guides" but not sure.
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#2
RE: Is Ascension possible without a spiritual guide?
(March 3, 2013 at 4:22 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Part of my szhizophrenia was that I would hallucinate spiritual vision, and amongst that, was a re-occuring vision of who I thought was the Guide of humanity of his time, mainly the 12th Imam, the Mahdi.

The first vision I had of them was showing me spiritually how to perform Salah, it's different then physical appearance in that you see the spirit behind the action of each part of Salah.

Now here is the issue. While I knew I got sick, I thought it was due to me not handling the spiritual experience well. But because Shiite Mystics taught that Imams spiritually guide and appear to their followers, I thought for sure I had vision of the Imams.

Now I've been thinking. Is spiritual ascension possible without an example to follow, a guide to imitate at each stage, showing you the spirit needed to ascend to the next stage?

When we learn things, we usually learn through a teacher, and application through a guide essentially.

Imam Khomeini said "It's been proven in the divine/spiritual sciences that the ascension/return is only through the perfect man".

The Quran says "And is upon God to show you the way, and there is many differing ways..."

I think Freemasons believe in "Spiritual Guides" but not sure.

Ask a religious person bro, this is not really an athiest affair.

LOL well personally I dont think "Ascension" is actually possible or exists
xXUKAFTTXx
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#3
RE: Is Ascension possible without a spiritual guide?
Well what I want to discuss is if it's possible to ascend given ascension is possible without spiritual guides.

Think about mathematics. We slowly learned and advanced in that, and it happened from a few of humanity, that spread their teachings. We practice their teachings under other teachers.

Medicine also can't be learned by one person on his own without help.

Is spiritual ascension the same? Can we ascend in high levels without help from teachers and examples?

I know most of you here don't believe in spiritual ascension but was willing to hear thoughts about the issue.
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#4
RE: Is Ascension possible without a spiritual guide?
(March 3, 2013 at 4:32 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Well what I want to discuss is if it's possible to ascend given ascension is possible without spiritual guides.

Think about mathematics. We slowly learned and advanced in that, and it happened from a few of humanity, that spread their teachings. We practice their teachings under other teachers.

Medicine also can't be learned by one person on his own without help.

Is spiritual ascension the same? Can we ascend in high levels without help from teachers and examples?

I know most of you here don't believe in spiritual ascension but was willing to hear thoughts about the issue.

You mean an increase in average of IQ?
And finding out new things?
xXUKAFTTXx
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#5
RE: Is Ascension possible without a spiritual guide?
(March 3, 2013 at 4:37 pm)xXUKAtheistForTheTruthXx Wrote:
(March 3, 2013 at 4:32 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Well what I want to discuss is if it's possible to ascend given ascension is possible without spiritual guides.

Think about mathematics. We slowly learned and advanced in that, and it happened from a few of humanity, that spread their teachings. We practice their teachings under other teachers.

Medicine also can't be learned by one person on his own without help.

Is spiritual ascension the same? Can we ascend in high levels without help from teachers and examples?

I know most of you here don't believe in spiritual ascension but was willing to hear thoughts about the issue.

You mean an increase in average of IQ?
And finding out new things?

I'm giving an analogy. A human can't live alone and then come up with star treck technology. We learn and advance. In the same way we advance in science through teachers and inheritance of teachers, I'm wondering if spiritual learning and ascending requires spiritual guides and teachers?

It was an analogy.
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#6
RE: Is Ascension possible without a spiritual guide?
(March 3, 2013 at 4:41 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:
(March 3, 2013 at 4:37 pm)xXUKAtheistForTheTruthXx Wrote: You mean an increase in average of IQ?
And finding out new things?

I'm giving an analogy. A human can't live alone and then come up with star treck technology. We learn and advance. In the same way we advance in science through teachers and inheritance of teachers, I'm wondering if spiritual learning and ascending requires spiritual guides and teachers?

It was an analogy.

Well, sometimes it doesn't apply to sprituality

Buddha did deep meditation alone for THREE days in a forest, next to a river while everyone thought he drowned
xXUKAFTTXx
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#7
RE: Is Ascension possible without a spiritual guide?



I think this is a paradox at the heart of most mystic practices, whether they are Muslim, Buddhist, or Taoist.


How does one acquire knowledge of the ineffable (and what, if any, is the difference between knowledge of the ineffable and mere experience of the ineffable).

And equally, along your point, is it possible to help another to know the ineffable. If so, in what sense is it ineffable? If not, then what's the point in teachers like Siddartha and Lao Tzu?

I'm inclined to go several directions with this. First, by denying that what is traditionally termed the ineffable is in fact as ineffable as the poets and the teachers like to make it sound. On the one hand, we have Wittgenstein's admonition that of which we cannot speak we must remain silent, but also his general point that many confusions of philosophy — metaphysics, ontology, epistemology — are in fact confusions of language, instead.

I can't claim to have completed my journey as a mystic myself, but I'm closing in on understandings of spirit which suggest that the ineffable is not so fucking ineffable after all. I look at the teachings of Siddartha and Zhuangzi and so forth, and while having great respect for what insights they had, I am coming to the conclusion, at least with Siddartha, that these thinkers turned off the road of conventional reasoning and into mysticism prematurely. Granted, it's entirely likely that they would have run out of road long before coming to a full understanding of the ineffable through conventional means, but I think it's a mistake to conclude that because the road didn't and couldn't exist in their time, that nothing essential has changed. I think it has. And while I'm not going to claim to have built that road myself, I think it entirely premature to give up the attempt to build it solely because sages millennium ago concluded that no such road did or could exist. (In particular, my impression is that, with Siddhartha, what began as the earnest path of a seeker was at some point corrupted by the allure of the rewards of the path of the charismatic teacher. I can see legitimate reasons for Siddartha's coming to the conclusions he did, but I also see an element in which he was little more than a religious used car salesman, trying to make a buck pitching his ideas and enjoying the accolades of doing so, instead of continuing the search for truth. For whatever reason, in my opinion, Siddartha gave up too early. And while psychoanalyzing the dead is tricky business, I suspect Siddartha knew this at heart.)

Anyway. I'll finish this up later, as I've forgotten where I was going with it.


[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]
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#8
RE: Is Ascension possible without a spiritual guide?
Quote:Imam Khomeini said "It's been proven in the divine/spiritual sciences that the ascension/return is only through the perfect man".

Who cares what that cunt said?
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#9
RE: Is Ascension possible without a spiritual guide?
(March 4, 2013 at 4:22 pm)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:Imam Khomeini said "It's been proven in the divine/spiritual sciences that the ascension/return is only through the perfect man".

Who cares what that cunt said?

Perfect man?

More like their looking for the perfect dick-rider
xXUKAFTTXx
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