A question to the darwinists.

[LukeMC]

Adults have a lot to learn as well, Darwinian... Age gives us more time in which to learn wisdom and knowledge... but it doesn't automatically translate to a measure of either. Arrogance, confidence, and environment are much more likely factors to determining ones' wisdom and knowledge.

Oh, and another contributing factor: intelligence. If you are stupid, it will probably be harder for you to learn wisdom and knowledge.

Precisely. For example...

This man's age has no positive correlation with his knowledge...

[Tiberius]

So yeah, 1 in 100,000,000 has a benificial mutation. And the odds of the benificial mutations getting passed on to the next generation and spreading are small. And the process being repated is even smaller... And is 4 million years nearly enough for it all to happen?

The odds of the beneficial mutation being passed on are not small, for the simple reason that beneficial mutations give the organism an advantage over the rest of the species. I fail to see how the process being repeated is smaller, given that once the mutation is passed onto the children (of which there is more than 1 usually), they can pass it onto more of the population (i.e. there is even more chance of it being passed on).

Populations grow exponentially under normal circumstances. 2 parents produce far more than 2 offspring (look at rabbits), which means all the children have the mutation, and are more likely to survive and reproduce.

4 million years is a long time. You only need to trace your family back a few generations before you come across ancestors that have well over 1 hundred descendants. My grandmother had 7 children, and each of those children had several children too, and some of those children now have children. That growth all happened within a century, and there are 40,000 centuries in 4 million years. Considering that the growth is also exponential, the further you go back, the more and more descendants you have (proportionally). That gives a lot of room for evolution to work in.

[fr0d0]

This man's age has no positive correlation with his knowledge...

Haha!

Knowledge of science yeah

[leo-rcc]

Where do you get the 4 million year figure from?

[downbeatplumb]

Could I interject and suggest I fight for jesus follow the below link and watch the whole series there are 31 at last count and should answer all his questions.

However I suspect that all the arguments and indeed facts will not persuade our friend at all.

You can lead a child to knowledge but you can't make him think.


[youtube]BS5vid4GkEY[/youtube]

[Dotard]

Excellent series. Highly recommended.

[I_Fight_for_Jesus_Christ]

I know that i've no hostility to him. I do get frustrated by repetitive stupidity and preaching though.

Ehh... I can't recall preaching yet sorry. And if you see preaching where no-one has preached then maybe you're the stupid one.

I said..

Let's keep this really simple. Not because you're just 16 but because sometimes it's all to easy to over complicate things.

To anyone with even the slightest intellect it is obvious that I wasn't patronising you, in fact the opposite. I was simply starting out with an uncomplicated version of evolution that could be easily grasped.

You're so sure that everyone here is against you and simply wants to rubbish everything you say and belittle you that you read that attitude when it isn't there.

You even missed my little tongue in cheek joke..

When a Mummy and a Daddy love each other very much.... Oops, maybe not that simple

I suspect that this is because like most of the Fundie Christians that pass this way (fr0d0 excluded) you have no sense of humour and what intellect you have is being wasted on refuting arguments that are factual.

You are just 16 and as a child you still have a lot to learn so I suggest that when people who know immeasurably more about a particular subject than take the time and effort to share their knowledge with you then try and learn something rather than just dismissing them with a snide comment.

I get the impression that, to you, this is all a bit of a laugh, winding up the ignorant atheists. But remember, your the one who is ignorant about how evolution works, not us. And when members do give you clear answers you even seem to have trouble understanding those.

I don't know why you guys seem so hostile towards me.

That's because you came here with the preconception of not being liked and so that is what has happened, despite our best efforts.

No I didn' miss the joke mate... I just have a different sense of humor as Russians go so we just laug at different things.

And yeah it is a bit of a laugh to me. Siply cos I beleive that evolution did not happen at all.

And there are many teachers out there... All contradicting each other and teaching differently. So I take input from all of them and then sort it out myself. And guys I'm not really doing this to convince you of anything, for I know it is impossible for a rookie to win over a veteran unless by a stroke of luck. And as to being frustrated... People, you should have gotten used to it by now...

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As to the video. It is interesting sure... But since atheists do not have the commandment "Do not lie." then I wonder if the creationist argument and videos could have been staged just to make the creationists look thick. Beleive me, Christians do the same about you guys.

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Darn I dont mean the fake vid of course. The make their own vids that seem as valid and make as much sense as that one supposedly did. You should watch "The Amazing Creatures that Defy Evolution series". Then youll know how I regard the vid posted above.

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Where do you get the 4 million year figure from?

Hey that's what they teach in the schools mate!

[Giff]

How I've understand it are you I_fight_for_Jesus ( culdn't you go with a shorter name?) a creationist. I also see from what you have written to be quite ignorant. In other words you don't much and I wonder if you ever been to school. Doen't seems like it.

Just the opening statement of this thread that you thought that humans evolved from chimps just says it all for me. It would be nearly be impossible to have a decsent conversation with you since you seem to be on the same education level as people during the middle-ages.

Another statement I don't understand is what you rescently wrote. That atheist doesn't have a commandement saying "do not lie". It's correct in one way. Since atheism isn't a religion do we not have any commandments. But that doesn't say that atheist doesn't have a moral. That's ridicollous. I mean do you think that most of my countries population is lying? Or doesn't have a moral? Also do you also not think that buddhists haven't any moral since they don't have any commandments?

You also seem to belive that evolution and science is directly connected with atheism. Which is not true. I think Kyu have explained that. Fr0d0 on this forum is a christian but he bleives in science and evolution and all that. I mean to say that evoltion isn't something real, is as doubring that gravitation doesn't exist.

I'm sure that you think naturelaws such as graviation exist. So you pick which things from science that you chose to believe in. Which I can't understand, if that's the case. you maybe also think that the world is flat.

Also creationism isn't science, it's not even close to be science. just like astrology.

I have stated before that I agree with the christian philosophy, but I don't agree with the religion. Just as I think the buddhist philosophy is a good philosphy. When i say that christian philosophy do I mean those things that Jeseus (Yeshu) supposidly would have said. That to love you friends and take care of eachother and help those in need. That is for me quite obvious. But it isn't something that christianity invented. Such moral did exist long before Jesus was born, which isn't certain.

Your signtaure doesn't make much sence, and also is a display of your ignorance. As I said atheism isn't a belief. It's, which I'm not ceratain what it's called in english, a life view or view or life. I wouldn't call it a philosophy either.

So I suggest you to know what you talk about before you start argue and make statements. If I haven't been entirly correct about you, then just tell me. But what I can see are just another ignorant creationist. It's people with simliar, or the same thoughts as you, that make this world bad and closeminded.

[Darwinian]

And yeah it is a bit of a laugh to me. Siply cos I beleive that evolution did not happen at all.

Evolution is a fact, but as my friend said here, "you can lead a child to knowledge, but you can't make him think!"

Also, there are quite a lot of members here who, at the age of 16, were probably as deluded as you are but, now as adults are free from all those fairy tales and believe in logic and reason.

There's still hope for you..

[Edwardo Piet]

"The Amazing Creatures that Defy Evolution series". Then youll know how I regard the vid posted above.

That's just the irreduclible complexity argument right? It's God of the gaps, and that logic just does not hold whatsoever

Because the gaps are found later, and there are getting less gaps. And if a gap is found that science can't work out let, that doesn't disprove evolution whatsover - because there are a fucking shitload of gaps that are closed, and the evidence for evolution overall is extremely, extremely strong!
And as for natural selection, that just works by pure logic...whatever ever organisms are left over are left over....whatever survives...survives. Natural selection is completely watertight!!

P.S: As for my swearing in this post, I am not swearing at you by the way, I'm just swearing in general. It came out naturally and I don't see swearing as a big deal. I hope you can handle that

EvF