(March 9, 2013 at 6:59 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: (March 9, 2013 at 6:39 pm)jstrodel Wrote: The strongest weapons atheist's have against Christians is to severely distort the Christian message, through being ignorant of it themselves.
No. The strongest case against Christianity is that the case for Christianity is unconvincing.
P.S. I'm an ex-Christian, as are many other posters here. So please, take any assumption you have about my ignorance of Christianity's message and throw it in the trash where all of your other assumptions and generalizations belong.
I'll leave it at that. I'm finding you to be a terrible listener and don't think further discussion is going to be fruitful.
If you are an ex-Christian, what makes you think that Christians are not supposed to judge others? Did you ever really get deep into Christianity or were you more of a religious, non-commited believer? Have you ever served in any formal ministry? I am not trying to insult you, but that is an error that people that have never really encountered real Christianity make, it is an error that is pervasive in liberal Christian circles where there is no experience of the supernatural because the message has been toned down so much that the character of the belief system is lost. Which denomination did you belong to? I grew up in a religious, Catholic home and became a Pentacostal/Charismatic Christian later on in my life. My parents taught me things like I should not judge people but they don't understand the Bible, and they don't experience any of the spiritual gifts or see miracles because they don't really believe the Bible.
Some commentaries if you are interested in what Mt 7 actually says:
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Judge not ... - This command refers to rash, censorious, and unjust judgment. See Romans 2:1. Luke Luk 6:37 explains it in the sense of "condemning." Christ does not condemn judging as a magistrate, for that, when according to justice, is lawful and necessary. Nor does he condemn our "forming an opinion" of the conduct of others, for it is impossible "not" to form an opinion of conduct that we know to be evil. But what he refers to is a habit of forming a judgment hastily, harshly, and without an allowance for every palliating circumstance, and a habit of "expressing" such an opinion harshly and unnecessarily when formed. It rather refers to private judgment than "judicial," and perhaps primarily to the customs of the scribes and Pharisees.
Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
Judge not, that ye be not judged - These exhortations are pointed against rash, harsh, and uncharitable judgments, the thinking evil, where no evil seems, and speaking of it accordingly. The Jews were highly criminal here, and yet had very excellent maxims against it, as may be seen in Schoettgen. This is one of the most important exhortations in the whole of this excellent sermon. By a secret and criminal disposition of nature, man endeavors to elevate himself above others, and, to do it more effectually, depresses them. His jealous and envious heart wishes that there may be no good quality found but in himself, that he alone may be esteemed. Such is the state of every unconverted man; and it is from this criminal disposition, that evil surmises, rash judgments, precipitate decisions, and all other unjust procedures against our neighbor, flow.
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Judge not, that ye be not judged. This is not to be understood of any sort of judgment; not of judgment in the civil courts of judicature, by proper magistrates, which ought to be made and pass, according to the nature of the case; nor of judgment in the churches of Christ, where offenders are to be called to an account, examined, tried, and dealt with according to the rules of the Gospel; nor of every private judgment, which one man may make upon another, without any detriment to him; but of rash judgment, interpreting men's words and deeds to the worst sense, and censuring them in a very severe manner; even passing sentence on them, with respect to their eternal state and condition. Good is the advice given by the famous Hillell (u), who lived a little before Christ's time;
"Do not judge thy neighbour, (says he,) until thou comest into his place.''
It would be well, if persons subject to a censorious spirit, would put themselves in the case and circumstances the persons are in they judge; and then consider, what judgment they would choose others should pass on them. The argument Christ uses to dissuade from this evil, which the Jews were very prone to, is, "that ye be not judged"; meaning, either by men, for such censorious persons rarely have the good will of their fellow creatures, but are commonly repaid in the same way; or else by God, which will be the most awful and tremendous: for such persons take upon them the place of God, usurp his prerogative, as if they knew the hearts and states of men; and therefore will have judgment without mercy at the hands of God.
(u) Pirke Abot, c. 2. sect. 4.
Geneva Study Bible
Judge {1} not, that ye be not judged.
(1) We ought to find fault with one another, but we must beware we do not do it without cause, or to seem holier than others or because of hatred of others.
People's New Testament
7:1 The Sermon on the Mount (concluded)
SUMMARY OF MATTHEW 7:
Motes and Beams. Casting Pearls before Swine. Asking and Receiving. The Golden Rule. The Broad and Strait Gates. Wolves in Sheep's Clothing. The Tree Known by Its Fruits. The Kingdom Entered by Obedience. The Wise and Foolish Builders. The Wonderful Teacher.
Judge not, that ye be not judged. The term judge is used in more than one sense, but Christ's meaning is plain. (1) He does not prohibit the civil judgment of the courts upon evil doers, for this is approved throughout the whole Bible. (2) He does not prohibit the judgment of the church, through its officers, upon those who walk disorderly, for both he and the apostles have enjoined this. (3) He does not forbid those private judgments that we are compelled to form the wrong-doers, for he himself tell us that we are to judge men by their fruits. (See Mt 7:15-20.) What he designs to prohibit is rash, uncharitable judgments, a fault-finding spirit, a disposition to condemn without examination of charges.
Wesley's Notes
7:1 Judge not - any man without full, clear, certain knowledge, without absolute necessity, without tender love. Luke 6:37.
Scofield Reference Notes
Margin judge not
In the sense of condemnation.
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
CHAPTER 7
Sermon on the Mount-concluded.
Mt 7:1-12. Miscellaneous Supplementary Counsels.
That these verses are entirely supplementary is the simplest and most natural view of them. All attempts to make out any evident connection with the immediately preceding context are, in our judgment, forced. But, though supplementary, these counsels are far from being of subordinate importance. On the contrary, they involve some of the most delicate and vital duties of the Christian life. In the vivid form in which they are here presented, perhaps they could not have been introduced with the same effect under any of the foregoing heads; but they spring out of the same great principles, and are but other forms and manifestations of the same evangelical "righteousness."
Censorious Judgment (Mt 7:1-5).
1. Judge not, that ye be not judged-To "judge" here does not exactly mean to pronounce condemnatory judgment, nor does it refer to simple judging at all, whether favorable or the reverse. The context makes it clear that the thing here condemned is that disposition to look unfavorably on the character and actions of others, which leads invariably to the pronouncing of rash, unjust, and unlovely judgments upon them. No doubt it is the judgments so pronounced which are here spoken of; but what our Lord aims at is the spirit out of which they spring. Provided we eschew this unlovely spirit, we are not only warranted to sit in judgment upon a brother's character and actions, but in the exercise of a necessary discrimination are often constrained to do so for our own guidance. It is the violation of the law of love involved in the exercise of a censorious disposition which alone is here condemned. And the argument against it-"that ye be not judged"-confirms this: "that your own character and actions be not pronounced upon with the like severity"; that is, at the great day.
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
7:1-6 We must judge ourselves, and judge of our own acts, but not make our word a law to everybody. We must not judge rashly, nor pass judgment upon our brother without any ground. We must not make the worst of people. Here is a just reproof to those who quarrel with their brethren for small faults, while they allow themselves in greater ones. Some sins are as motes, while others are as beams; some as a gnat, others as a camel. Not that there is any sin little; if it be a mote, or splinter, it is in the eye; if a gnat, it is in the throat; both are painful and dangerous, and we cannot be easy or well till they are got out. That which charity teaches us to call but a splinter in our brother's eye, true repentance and godly sorrow will teach us to call a beam in our own. It is as strange that a man can be in a sinful, miserable condition, and not be aware of it, as that a man should have a beam in his eye, and not consider it; but the god of this world blinds their minds. Here is a good rule for reprovers; first reform thyself.
