New atheist.. question

[Tonus]

any act of immorality in the bible that i mention to them, i get the response "God has a bigger plan and he see's the bigger picture. we do not understand why these things happened, and no one can understand. No one can understand the mind of God".

i do not know how to reply to that. i feel like there should be an easy answer.. but im just missing it.

any help?

There is nothing to respond to, because they're not really making an argument, they're conceding it. You can answer any number of ways, and it won't matter, because they've conceded the argument.

I suppose you could make them squirm by telling them that perhaps it is god's plan for you to not believe in him. The only possible responses are to accept that you may be right, or claim that you're wrong-- but that would require understanding the mind of god.

[Cato]

@OP

Taylor,

What you are facing is a version of the 'mysterious ways' excuse that christians reflexively vomit when faced with explaining why their god is a prick. Jim Jefferies has a nice take on this. I recommend considering your love for your parents while drafting a response.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1pCudKUIRg

[Esquilax]

ive recently come out to my christian parents that i am an atheist, and i have gotten in many arguments with them (as you can imagine). and there is always one statement they make that i can not seem to respond to.

any act of immorality in the bible that i mention to them, i get the response "God has a bigger plan and he see's the bigger picture. we do not understand why these things happened, and no one can understand. No one can understand the mind of God".

i do not know how to reply to that. i feel like there should be an easy answer.. but im just missing it.

any help?

Well, if you can't understand the mind of god, then it only follows that neither can your parents. Since none of you are capable of comprehending the mind of god, you should ask your folks why they feel safe in ascribing motivations to anything god does. If nobody can understand the mind of god, and the bible was written by human authors, then it's likely they can't either. It nobody can understand the mind of god then you're equally as justified in ascribing god hostile motivations based on the effects of his actions than your parents are in ascribing him benign motivations.

In fact, the idea that god is hostile to humans is actually more likely, since believing in his goodness actually runs contrary to the effects of the majority of his actions. Only one of you is swimming upstream in order to hold their beliefs, and it ain't you, Taylor.

[Sagasa]

I've never liked the, "It's a mystery that we can't comprehend," argument. It's basically arrogance masquerading as humility.

Real humility, the sort that says, "I don't know, I'm not going to make any assumptions, I'm going to find out as much about it as I can," is what science is based on. Religious people use that phrase as if it's the magic answer to all of life's questions that they don't understand. That's the worst folly there is, thinking you've got all the answers when you don't.

[fr0d0]

I've never liked the, "It's a mystery that we can't comprehend," argument. It's basically arrogance masquerading as humility.

Real humility, the sort that says, "I don't know, I'm not going to make any assumptions, I'm going to find out as much about it as I can," is what science is based on. Religious people use that phrase as if it's the magic answer to all of life's questions that they don't understand. That's the worst folly there is, thinking you've got all the answers when you don't.

And yet here is you, hilariously dismissing religious endeavour as 'magic answers'.

Sweet.

[jstrodel]

You can have certain knowledge of some aspects of God's character and not necessarily have certain knowledge of other aspects. It is not irrational to hold to knowledge of God or an appreciation of God's goodness in the face of difficult issues.

It is indeed prideful to assume that there must be every single issue resolved in knowing the Bible. However, there is so much written on the scriptures, there are so many books. If you are looking for a Christian perspective on Biblical difficulties, it is in your reach to find it. Look up authors like FF Bruce, NT Wright, Alaisdair McGraph, Alvin Plantiga, Zondervan publishing, etc

[Sagasa]

I've never liked the, "It's a mystery that we can't comprehend," argument. It's basically arrogance masquerading as humility.

Real humility, the sort that says, "I don't know, I'm not going to make any assumptions, I'm going to find out as much about it as I can," is what science is based on. Religious people use that phrase as if it's the magic answer to all of life's questions that they don't understand. That's the worst folly there is, thinking you've got all the answers when you don't.

And yet here is you, hilariously dismissing religious endeavour as 'magic answers'.

Sweet.

Well, yes. Because at some point in your personal religious endeavor, you reach that point where you have to decide to take that leap of faith. It's either that or the whole thing falls apart. At a certain point where the answers stop, what some people call "the Magic Event Horizon", logic fails and so people have to make that huge leap even without evidence or rationality. That's when they play the God card and assume that that's the end of it. Mystery solved, let's all go home. It's assuming you have all the answers when you don't and dressing it up as humility.

[fr0d0]

---

And yet here is you, hilariously dismissing religious endeavour as 'magic answers'.

Sweet.

Well, yes. Because at some point in your personal religious endeavor, you reach that point where you have to decide to take that leap of faith. It's either that or the whole thing falls apart. At a certain point where the answers stop, what some people call "the Magic Event Horizon", logic fails and so people have to make that huge leap even without evidence or rationality. That's when they play the God card and assume that that's the end of it. Mystery solved, let's all go home. It's assuming you have all the answers when you don't and dressing it up as humility.

---

Yes, I already get that you are ignorant of the subject. Please apply your own conclusions to yourself.

[Sagasa]

---

Well, yes. Because at some point in your personal religious endeavor, you reach that point where you have to decide to take that leap of faith. It's either that or the whole thing falls apart. At a certain point where the answers stop, what some people call "the Magic Event Horizon", logic fails and so people have to make that huge leap even without evidence or rationality. That's when they play the God card and assume that that's the end of it. Mystery solved, let's all go home. It's assuming you have all the answers when you don't and dressing it up as humility.

---

Yes, I already get that you are ignorant of the subject. Please apply your own conclusions to yourself.

Alright, if the best argument you've got is, "Cool story bro." I won't hold it against you.

[Angrboda]

There's a difference between saying "I don't know," and saying "I don't know, but there must be an answer." Granted, it isn't confined to religion, but this confidence of things unseen or not in evidence is fairly typical of religious faith.