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Current time: December 25, 2024, 6:06 pm
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Proving God Existence
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The problem with it all starts very early. "a consistent (as we assume) set of repeated events we use as a reference (e.g. clock ticks, radiation, moon cycle, etc."
I would imagine the whole thing runs into problems when you realise these "reference" points are relative and not consistent throughout the whole universe simultaneously. I would also imagine that the OP would sooner reinterpret the argument to take things like this into account than to admit the conclusion is faulty.
Self-authenticating private evidence is useless, because it is indistinguishable from the illusion of it. ― Kel, Kelosophy Blog
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside? The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm
I doubt the OP undertands what he posted... It doesn't have any sense, its like a last desperate ditch.
RE: Proving God Existence
March 18, 2013 at 10:44 am
(This post was last modified: March 18, 2013 at 10:45 am by pocaracas.)
(March 18, 2013 at 6:07 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: Part IIOthers have bugged you with other details, I'll bug you with this detail. You're missing, at least, one term, there. E = U + N + G N = UNknown Universe (which, as far as we are aware, is much much more than the known universe). As N is very large, G must be very, very small. Quote:Assuming that Existence E=U+G Now all you need is some actual evidence for the "g" (which you do not have.) Seriously, you can write all the absurd horseshit you want but until you can demonstrate that your god is something more than a figment of your own imagination you are wasting our fucking time and yours. Apparently, yours is not very valuable. (March 18, 2013 at 6:07 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: Part I I think it's worth pointing out you use the word 'assuming' a number of times in your logic formulas. Like I have said to you in one of your previous posts, you cannot loose sight of these assumptions in your final conclusion, which you appear to have done. It's very poor reasoning. At the end of all that effort all you have demonstrated is that the mechanism you used to reason your conclusion is flawed. MM
"The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions" - Leonardo da Vinci
"I think I use the term “radical” rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean atheist, I really do not believe that there is a god; in fact, I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one ... etc., etc. It’s easier to say that I am a radical atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously." - Douglas Adams (and I echo the sentiment) RE: Proving God Existence
March 18, 2013 at 3:33 pm
(This post was last modified: March 18, 2013 at 3:43 pm by Muslim Scholar.)
(March 18, 2013 at 12:01 pm)ManMachine Wrote: I think it's worth pointing out you use the word 'assuming' a number of times in your logic formulas.Assumptions as Axioms are not poor reasoning An assumption that can be proved other ways doesn't affect the proof itself For example assuming G, with the probability that it can be 0 or something is not adding or taking anything from the proof To refute the proof you need to show the one of the premises is false or one step doesn't lead to the next I actually tried to refute it myself, it is very difficult or impossible (March 18, 2013 at 7:56 am)The Germans are coming Wrote: What do you mean with "dynamic"?I'm not following the full scientific explanation of dynamic I mean it is only changing, its state now is not the same as after 1 second Quote:"Let`s asume that time is infinite" well, we dont need to assume that, we know that time is not infinite and that it had a beginning and that it has it`s border at the limits of the expanding universe.Thanks, it means that this part is already proved for you! Quote:YesQuote:4. Defining two sets of the Universe states in the pastWow, you know, the states of the universe in the past are calculated via massive laboretories as for example in Cern, and you have the temerity to assume that simply through calculating with false premises you can actualy achieve something! Quote:I agree this part (Part III) needs more discussionQuote:Trying to figure some necessary/definitive attributes for G it is not based on calculations but rather logical explanation if you cannot figure it by yourself, then I think I should explain it more. Point which one you don't agree with? (March 18, 2013 at 11:39 am)Minimalist Wrote:I already proved itQuote:Assuming that Existence E=U+G If you agree with Part I then the universe either existed as a static object or did not exist at all As static is the opposite to dynamic something must change its state to be dynamic and to create time as well This is God, if you don't agree with the name, just name it G RE: Proving God Existence
March 18, 2013 at 3:46 pm
(This post was last modified: March 18, 2013 at 3:58 pm by Muslim Scholar.)
(March 18, 2013 at 10:19 am)NoMoreFaith Wrote: The problem with it all starts very early. "a consistent (as we assume) set of repeated events we use as a reference (e.g. clock ticks, radiation, moon cycle, etc."Actually it doesn't matter at all if it is really consistent or not Time can be just a relation between two events "I went home while eating a sandwich" If there is more than one event happening, then time can exist We can call it MyTime instead of time, in the context of the proof I can name anything as long it is not setting a false fact. (March 18, 2013 at 10:17 am)LastPoet Wrote: Give us links, if you please.There is no links, I wrote this myself I did not find in all Islamic texts anything that can prove God existence without referring to religious texts! However I found few hints that led me to use proof by contradiction rather than direct proof of God. If you are interested I can share them. (March 18, 2013 at 10:44 am)pocaracas Wrote: Others have bugged you with other details, I'll bug you with this detail.I did not miss it! I wrote "Known universe" on purpose Anything else is G (including the possibility that G may equal N1+N2+...+G) G must be a single unit (Singularity) because if more than one object exist, time (as I defined it) must exist as well Another point, as G is unique there no meaning of asking is it big or small or even compare its size to anything, it doesn't have a size at all It is something beyond all what we know, so we cannot even question things like what its size? is it male or female? what color? etc. RE: Proving God Existence
March 18, 2013 at 4:11 pm
(This post was last modified: March 18, 2013 at 4:15 pm by Whateverist.)
(March 18, 2013 at 6:44 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: I'll summarize it in very few words I reject the assumption that there must be a time in the past where an infinite number of seconds had passed. Choose any interval of time you like. It can be subdivided an unlimited (hence infinite) number of times. You might just as well say imagine a whole (integer) number before which there have already been an infinite number of such numbers. Easy. Pick absolutely any one you like. Suppose you pick zero. You seem to think that because there is an infinite number yet to come that there cannot have already have been an infinite number leading up to zero. And that is not true. It is incomprehensible to imagine a moment before which there was nothing and no way to mark time. Lets some god (imagine your own here) existed who is credited with having created the universe, space and time. Well then if your god itself existed before the beginning of time, then there was something before that first moment and that something certainly had the capacity to mark time if it so desired. Before anything there was that which made possible everything we see today. You want to call that God, I prefer to call it a mystery. |
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