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The ''Illogicality'' of Prayer.
April 25, 2013 at 4:38 pm
Drawing on a discussion between George Carlin and a Vicar on National American television in the 90's I would like to put forward and argument that was not used but should have been.
Carlin: 'If God exists, may he strike me dead right now.' (nothing obviously happens)
Vicar: Ahh, it was not god's will to kill you.
Okay, brilliant counter-argument there from the priest, except for one point that went unnoticed. It is actually a counter-argument to ALL prayer. If you pray and pray and pray to win the lottery, for example, yet it isn't in ''god's will'' for you to ever win it, then what is the point of praying at all? They say all prayers are answered, but if god can pick and choose which prayers are going to be answered, he already has your life planned out for you, meaning whether you pray or not, it should, in effect, make no difference whatsoever. So if you can't prove God's existence through prayer, the one think that supposedly could show, yes, God exists, what's the difference between that, and no God at all?
For me, The biggest Biblical contradiction is this:
''Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me''
Exodus 20:4-5
I am a jealous god? Isn't that one of the seven deadly sins? Oh dear me. And even worse... He's not going to punish the person who dislikes him... but his Children, and his children's children? Without trail? Oh, so much mercy God... How merciful you really are.
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RE: The ''Illogicality'' of Prayer.
April 25, 2013 at 4:55 pm
Prayer is not so that you get money or a girlfriend or whatever. It to get wisdom or temperance or something much more important. Prayer is about changing things, but prayer is not about changing the external. Prayer is to change the internal. It's actually a lot like meditation, but the focus does not limit itself like in traditional meditation. Prayer is designed to change the person internally by the work of God, not by the work of the person.
The Lord bless you and keep you; the Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you; the Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace.
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RE: The ''Illogicality'' of Prayer.
April 25, 2013 at 4:59 pm
(April 25, 2013 at 4:55 pm)Tex Wrote: Prayer is not so that you get money or a girlfriend or whatever. It to get wisdom or temperance or something much more important. Prayer is about changing things, but prayer is not about changing the external. Prayer is to change the internal. It's actually a lot like meditation, but the focus does not limit itself like in traditional meditation. Prayer is designed to change the person internally by the work of God, not by the work of the person.
Is this the way most people who pray view prayer?
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RE: The ''Illogicality'' of Prayer.
April 25, 2013 at 5:02 pm
Stars are less judgmental and have less conditions. Although they don't seem to listen to me. Their pretty though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKh6XxYbbIc
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RE: The ''Illogicality'' of Prayer.
April 25, 2013 at 5:06 pm
(April 25, 2013 at 4:55 pm)Tex Wrote: Prayer is not so that you get money or a girlfriend or whatever. It to get wisdom or temperance or something much more important. Prayer is about changing things, but prayer is not about changing the external. Prayer is to change the internal. It's actually a lot like meditation, but the focus does not limit itself like in traditional meditation. Prayer is designed to change the person internally by the work of God, not by the work of the person.
Okay, then why do people pray for such things as healing people of a congregation who are ill, or to end starvation or war, or to protect their children? All prayers I've ever been privy to are as such. Those are things that are external, so in relation, you can only pray for yourself? Seems rather a selfish concept.
For me, The biggest Biblical contradiction is this:
''Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me''
Exodus 20:4-5
I am a jealous god? Isn't that one of the seven deadly sins? Oh dear me. And even worse... He's not going to punish the person who dislikes him... but his Children, and his children's children? Without trail? Oh, so much mercy God... How merciful you really are.
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RE: The ''Illogicality'' of Prayer.
April 25, 2013 at 5:07 pm
(April 25, 2013 at 4:59 pm)RobLeach Wrote: (April 25, 2013 at 4:55 pm)Tex Wrote: Prayer is not so that you get money or a girlfriend or whatever. It to get wisdom or temperance or something much more important. Prayer is about changing things, but prayer is not about changing the external. Prayer is to change the internal. It's actually a lot like meditation, but the focus does not limit itself like in traditional meditation. Prayer is designed to change the person internally by the work of God, not by the work of the person.
Is this the way most people who pray view prayer?
Nope. Most people are stupid. The "Our Father", which is Jesus' basic outline of how to pray, includes only one material thing: "Give us our daily bread". Food for the day is the only thing that is included. That's it. Most people treat God like a magical genie that just poofs things into existence, and then they play a Rorschach test to say that it was "the will of the Lord".
The biblical "Our Father". It's short.
The Lord bless you and keep you; the Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you; the Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace.
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RE: The ''Illogicality'' of Prayer.
April 25, 2013 at 5:09 pm
(April 25, 2013 at 5:02 pm)Insanity x Wrote: Stars are less judgmental and have less conditions. Although they don't seem to listen to me. Their pretty though.
And they exist.
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RE: The ''Illogicality'' of Prayer.
April 25, 2013 at 5:13 pm
(April 25, 2013 at 5:06 pm)Beardio1 Wrote: (April 25, 2013 at 4:55 pm)Tex Wrote: Prayer is not so that you get money or a girlfriend or whatever. It to get wisdom or temperance or something much more important. Prayer is about changing things, but prayer is not about changing the external. Prayer is to change the internal. It's actually a lot like meditation, but the focus does not limit itself like in traditional meditation. Prayer is designed to change the person internally by the work of God, not by the work of the person.
Okay, then why do people pray for such things as healing people of a congregation who are ill, or to end starvation or war, or to protect their children? All prayers I've ever been privy to are as such. Those are things that are external, so in relation, you can only pray for yourself? Seems rather a selfish concept.
But praying for a magical barrier between warring nation is a childish way to pray. Praying for the leaders of each nation to halt war and begin diplomacy is a mature request. Protection for soldiers by magically giving them anti-magnetic armor that makes bullets fly away is a childish prayer. Protection for soldiers should include their bodies, but also include their faith, their psyche, and multiple other things.
The Lord bless you and keep you; the Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you; the Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace.
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RE: The ''Illogicality'' of Prayer.
April 25, 2013 at 5:14 pm
(This post was last modified: April 25, 2013 at 5:20 pm by Beardio1.)
(April 25, 2013 at 5:06 pm)Beardio1 Wrote: (April 25, 2013 at 4:55 pm)Tex Wrote: Prayer is not so that you get money or a girlfriend or whatever. It to get wisdom or temperance or something much more important. Prayer is about changing things, but prayer is not about changing the external. Prayer is to change the internal. It's actually a lot like meditation, but the focus does not limit itself like in traditional meditation. Prayer is designed to change the person internally by the work of God, not by the work of the person.
Okay, then why do people pray for such things as healing people of a congregation who are ill, or to end starvation or war, or to protect their children? All prayers I've ever been privy to are as such. Those are things that are external, so in relation, you can only pray for yourself? Seems rather a selfish concept.
And honestly look at this, if you want to get something done, why rely on God, why not do what science does and do something about it?
(April 25, 2013 at 5:13 pm)Tex Wrote: (April 25, 2013 at 5:06 pm)Beardio1 Wrote: Okay, then why do people pray for such things as healing people of a congregation who are ill, or to end starvation or war, or to protect their children? All prayers I've ever been privy to are as such. Those are things that are external, so in relation, you can only pray for yourself? Seems rather a selfish concept.
But praying for a magical barrier between warring nation is a childish way to pray. Praying for the leaders of each nation to halt war and begin diplomacy is a mature request. Protection for soldiers by magically giving them anti-magnetic armor that makes bullets fly away is a childish prayer. Protection for soldiers should include their bodies, but also include their faith, their psyche, and multiple other things.
but those things are not internal, they are external still. And secondly, what if it is in 'God's will' that the war is happening? he won't stop it no matter how hard you pray and what's more, he started it by saying 'those who worship other gods shall surely be put to death'' so once again, the use of prayer is zero.
For me, The biggest Biblical contradiction is this:
''Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me''
Exodus 20:4-5
I am a jealous god? Isn't that one of the seven deadly sins? Oh dear me. And even worse... He's not going to punish the person who dislikes him... but his Children, and his children's children? Without trail? Oh, so much mercy God... How merciful you really are.
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RE: The ''Illogicality'' of Prayer.
April 25, 2013 at 5:32 pm
(April 25, 2013 at 5:14 pm)Beardio1 Wrote: And honestly look at this, if you want to get something done, why rely on God, why not do what science does and do something about it?
We are supposed to do stuff about it. It's part of our moral duty. Sitting around and having a never ending prayer circle is not my idea of Christianity. In fact, its a great way to get conquered by a neighbor. The "reliance on God" isn't about starving ourselves or others or something crazy. It's about not rejecting his governance and relying on one's self as authority.
(April 25, 2013 at 5:14 pm)Beardio1 Wrote: but those things are not internal, they are external still. And secondly, what if it is in 'God's will' that the war is happening? he won't stop it no matter how hard you pray and what's more, he started it by saying 'those who worship other gods shall surely be put to death'' so once again, the use of prayer is zero.
Internal to the people.
The Lord bless you and keep you; the Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you; the Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace.
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