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What is the Purpose?
May 3, 2013 at 1:11 pm
Theists are fond of saying that atheists have no purpose in life, no real reason to live.
Very early this morning, in that just-woke-up haze, I began questioning this proposition. If you believe in god, what purpose, exactly, does that give you?
As a theist, you grow up, get a job, raise a family and pursue whatever it is that you perceive as happiness.
As an atheist, you grow up, get a job, raise a family and pursue whatever you perceive as happiness.
So where does this idea of religion giving life meaning come in? What extra "benefit" does one receive by being religious? Conversely, what am I losing or missing from a purpose standpoint by being an atheist?
There are a few answers I am expecting but I will wait to put them into print until I see what you all have to say.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." -Einstein
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RE: What is the Purpose?
May 3, 2013 at 1:19 pm
They tell themselves lots of stupid shit to make themselves feel better.
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RE: What is the Purpose?
May 3, 2013 at 1:27 pm
Proverbs 15:14 The heart of him that hath understanding seeketh knowledge: but the mouth of fools feedeth on foolishness.
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RE: What is the Purpose?
May 3, 2013 at 1:35 pm
A perfect example of the stupid shit they tell themselves.
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RE: What is the Purpose?
May 3, 2013 at 1:41 pm
(May 3, 2013 at 1:27 pm)goodnews Wrote: Proverbs 15:14 The heart of him that hath understanding seeketh knowledge: but the mouth of fools feedeth on foolishness.
So you are saying that atheists do not pursue knowledge?
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." -Einstein
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RE: What is the Purpose?
May 3, 2013 at 1:45 pm
Marine mammal resembling a dolphin but usually a tad smaller?
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RE: What is the Purpose?
May 3, 2013 at 1:57 pm
(May 3, 2013 at 1:45 pm)whateverist Wrote: Marine mammal resembling a dolphin but usually a tad smaller?
Suddenly I wish I had the ability to give a post more than one kudos.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: What is the Purpose?
May 3, 2013 at 3:29 pm
(This post was last modified: May 3, 2013 at 3:29 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
They may be referring to specific ideas associated with atheism. One common atheist position is that all phenomena can be reduced to physical processes. Physical processes consist of causal chains that just are. It does not make sense to say they are directed toward desired ends. And purposes are defined by reference to their desired ends. Thus any form of atheism that denies teleology makes life a hollow gesture.
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RE: What is the Purpose?
May 3, 2013 at 4:25 pm
(May 3, 2013 at 3:29 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: They may be referring to specific ideas associated with atheism. One common atheist position is that all phenomena can be reduced to physical processes. Physical processes consist of causal chains that just are. It does not make sense to say they are directed toward desired ends. And purposes are defined by reference to their desired ends. Thus any form of atheism that denies teleology makes life a hollow gesture.
And with religion? How does life become any less hollow? That is the fundamental question here. WHAT IS THE PURPOSE?
What purpose does religion give you?
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." -Einstein
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RE: What is the Purpose?
May 3, 2013 at 5:34 pm
The difference is that it gives you intrinsic purpose. That you were meant for a something, even if you aren't personally motivated for that.
For example, it questions, if God created us humans, what is the purpose of doing that.
I've come up with reasons, part of it is to grant us peace and happiness, part of it is opportunity to gain greatness and honour. However temporary happiness to me cannot be the over-all goal. The reason being is that too many humans suffer temporarily and are not happy.
Therefore, in a world full of evil and suffering, believing in a creator, gives you the resolve that you are meant to transcend temporary happiness, and achieve a state of contentment and peace, in whatever situation you are found.
For example, I relate to the story of Jacob and Joseph in the Quran. One suffered a lot due the suffering of the other, and one was full of grief. But they were at the end, noble and didn't really lose anything out of the tragedy they faced.
No all they did is gain through that.
When we live, we can live just for the present moment, or we can be planning for the future as well as the present moment.
With an eternal future, one can plan for eternal future. As I personally don't believe in hell, the real loss and real gain, is that which lies within the soul.
Disgrace to me is worse eternal inheritance, than that of eternal punishment. But it's worse in a different type of way, in the same way, eternal praise is better off than any physical enjoyment, but it's better in a different way and sense. It's comparing two different things, so it's hard to see it better or worse.
Good actions are not simply conceptual as well from my perspective but a form a living essence and form of a part of you, in inner world.
In this sense, I relate to the Islamic view, that your actions will one day be seen in their living forms, and that then we truly will know our worth, whether it was in the positive or negative.
This perspective on actions, just gives every action a lot more weight. It's inheritance is eternal, and it's not just a psychological aspect of inheritance, but a living reality inheritance.
These beliefs significantly motivate me to take every action I do with great care.
They take living forms and have an objective beauty or ugliness value to them, or inbetween, depending on the state of being and motivation and spirit behind each action.
I believe ultimately building a beautiful inner world is the higher purpose intended by the Creator. Not temporary happiness.
Ironically, this view significantly makes me happier, in a world filled with so much problems and suffering. It gives me a positive view that everyone has this opportunity.
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