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(June 13, 2013 at 9:55 am)Rhythm Wrote: Wrong again, slaughterhouses spend a substantial amount of cash making the process less "stressful" for the livestock (and the subject -is- poured over by those so inclined)- because stress (in the animal), apparently, damages the product - halts the process - and can damage the equipment or cause injury to the operator.
So first they pump them full with anti-biotics and growth hormones and the wrong feed and NOW they care about the taste of the "product"? Please. And they have just as little concern for the well-being of the operator, who are usually foreigners who can't get another job (who in the right mind WANTS to work there?).
(June 13, 2013 at 9:55 am)Rhythm Wrote: Cattle, for example, are kept well fed, calm, and oblivious right up to the bolt.
Animals are often transported for days without water or feed, when they arrive they're barely alive, often times can't stand up etc. and already stressed to the max from the trip. But as long as the animal arrives alive it can still be slaughtered, so nobody cares.
Animals can't talk and have no rights, so they're the perfect victims, no industry would ever care if they suffer. If you think everything's fine then you're lying to yourself.
"Men see clearly enough the barbarity of all ages — except their own!" — Ernest Crosby.
June 13, 2013 at 10:17 am (This post was last modified: June 13, 2013 at 10:19 am by KichigaiNeko.)
(June 13, 2013 at 10:00 am)Rhythm Wrote: Who knows? The hunter should know.......
(round here, hunting seasons are arranged so as to avoid this scenario btw - hedging against general ignorance)
And yes the Hunters would know. (Dare I say, the Hunters have a much more intimate knowledge of the breeding seasons and life patterns of their prey?)
Hunting here is for feral/ invasive/ introduced species in the main. There is still talk of introducing/ expanding Kangaroo hunting (yay, thanks climate change! ) in other area and exploring export markets for the meat more.
(June 13, 2013 at 10:12 am)littleendian Wrote:
(June 13, 2013 at 9:55 am)Rhythm Wrote: Wrong again, slaughterhouses spend a substantial amount of cash making the process less "stressful" for the livestock (and the subject -is- poured over by those so inclined)- because stress (in the animal), apparently, damages the product - halts the process - and can damage the equipment or cause injury to the operator.
So first they pump them full with anti-biotics and growth hormones and the wrong feed and NOW they care about the taste of the "product"? Please. And they have just as little concern for the well-being of the operator, who are usually foreigners who can't get another job (who in the right mind WANTS to work there?).
(June 13, 2013 at 9:55 am)Rhythm Wrote: Cattle, for example, are kept well fed, calm, and oblivious right up to the bolt.
Animals are often transported for days without water or feed, when they arrive they're barely alive, often times can't stand up etc. and already stressed to the max from the trip. But as long as the animal arrives alive it can still be slaughtered, so nobody cares.
Animals can't talk and have no rights, so they're the perfect victims, no industry would ever care if they suffer. If you think everything's fine then you're lying to yourself.
Where do you get your information from Endie??
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
June 13, 2013 at 10:19 am (This post was last modified: June 13, 2013 at 10:20 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(June 13, 2013 at 10:12 am)littleendian Wrote: So first they pump them full with anti-biotics and growth hormones and the wrong feed and NOW they care about the taste of the "product"? Please. And they have just as little concern for the well-being of the operator, who are usually foreigners who can't get another job (who in the right mind WANTS to work there?).
They always care about the taste of the product - that's a large portion of what determines profitability. It may come as a surprise to you...but the "wrong feed" and all the hormones......people actually seem to like the taste...lol. The operators well-being is not cared for - for sake of it's self- but for sake of potential lost revenue...same as the livestock really.
(June 13, 2013 at 9:55 am)Rhythm Wrote: Animals are often transported for days without water or feed, when they arrive they're barely alive, often times can't stand up etc. and already stressed to the max from the trip. But as long as the animal arrives alive it can still be slaughtered, so nobody cares.
Hell, reading over that...one almost gets the idea that the livestock are..gasp...being taken good care of -if only- because they represent significant capital.
Quote:Animals can't talk and have no rights, so they're the perfect victims, no industry would ever care if they suffer. If you think everything's fine then you're lying to yourself.
They can't talk and -yet still- they have rights. Again, they have more rights than some things that -can- talk. You keep insinuating that I'm somehow okay with any of this...despite having explained to you many times that I am not. Regardless of whether or not you and I are okay with current practices it makes little sense to argue against an inaccurate representation of those practices. What could I possibly be doing here but helping you to form a more compelling argument by suggesting that you remove those bits so easily called out?
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(June 13, 2013 at 10:12 am)littleendian Wrote: Animals are often transported for days without water or feed, when they arrive they're barely alive, often times can't stand up etc. and already stressed to the max from the trip. But as long as the animal arrives alive it can still be slaughtered, so nobody cares.
Where do you get this crap from? No, that doesn't happen in the US side of beef production. And, yes, I speak from first hand knowledge.
[mutters]probably getting this garbage from a PETA website[/mutters]
(June 13, 2013 at 10:06 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: You seem like you are from an urban area Endie and have no idea what life is all about.
Oh and because you eat meat you do? I'm sure you have such a better insight in everything just because you're sitting in the bush.
Quote:You also don't seem to care whether a mouse, rat or other rodent that is killed slowly and painfully from poisons on your precious veggies food stuffs has a litter in a den slowly starving to death.
I eat organic produce from local farmers, so I can savely say that my damage to these critters is minimized. But again, there's a difference between defending crops against pests and killing for meat.
Quote:It was noted that when the "poported Animal activists win" of stopping Live exports to Indonesia that many of the cattle and sheep were left to die on the docking feed lots while Indonesia obtained their meat needs from other less reputable sources where animals are treated far worse than Australian animals. But hey ...it was humane that these cattle and sheep died of thirst, the farmers (greedy little shits) died, families fractured and whole faring communities disrupted; just so a bunch of urban latte drinkers can feel superior for having taken the "moral high ground".
Strawman, that's not what I'm arguing for.
Quote:My argument regarding a "quick clean kill" extends to humans Endie, I would rather die quickly (and see my loved ones do the same) than be tortured by the "kindnesses" of persons of your religious leanings
I'm sure that you're thinking more of a "quick clean kill" when you're 90, not when you're 25, which is the relative age of these animals whose "humane" killing you defend.
"Men see clearly enough the barbarity of all ages — except their own!" — Ernest Crosby.
June 13, 2013 at 10:31 am (This post was last modified: June 13, 2013 at 10:34 am by KichigaiNeko.)
(June 13, 2013 at 10:26 am)littleendian Wrote:
(June 13, 2013 at 10:06 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: You seem like you are from an urban area Endie and have no idea what life is all about.
Oh and because you eat meat you do? I'm sure you have such a better insight in everything just because you're sitting in the bush.
Quote:You also don't seem to care whether a mouse, rat or other rodent that is killed slowly and painfully from poisons on your precious veggies food stuffs has a litter in a den slowly starving to death.
I eat organic produce from local farmers, so I can savely say that my damage to these critters is minimized. But again, there's a difference between defending crops against pests and killing for meat.
Quote:It was noted that when the "poported Animal activists win" of stopping Live exports to Indonesia that many of the cattle and sheep were left to die on the docking feed lots while Indonesia obtained their meat needs from other less reputable sources where animals are treated far worse than Australian animals. But hey ...it was humane that these cattle and sheep died of thirst, the farmers (greedy little shits) died, families fractured and whole faring communities disrupted; just so a bunch of urban latte drinkers can feel superior for having taken the "moral high ground".
Strawman, that's not what I'm arguing for.
Quote:My argument regarding a "quick clean kill" extends to humans Endie, I would rather die quickly (and see my loved ones do the same) than be tortured by the "kindnesses" of persons of your religious leanings
I'm sure that you're thinking more of a "quick clean kill" when you're 90, not when you're 25, which is the relative age of these animals whose "humane" killing you defend.
You really love to have yourself on don't you.
And just where do you live?
Yes I would rather a quick clean kill at 25 years than the ministrations of well intentioned and misguided individuals.
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
(June 13, 2013 at 10:12 am)littleendian Wrote: Animals are often transported for days without water or feed, when they arrive they're barely alive, often times can't stand up etc. and already stressed to the max from the trip. But as long as the animal arrives alive it can still be slaughtered, so nobody cares.
Where do you get this crap from? No, that doesn't happen in the US side of beef production. And, yes, I speak from first hand knowledge.
So you are saying animals are not transported to centralized slaughterhouses? I was told it wasn't even legal to slaughter animals (except a capped # of chickens) on the farm, for everything else you need special facilities (i.e. transport).
Here's an article (not PETA, and also not about the US) about animal transport.
"Men see clearly enough the barbarity of all ages — except their own!" — Ernest Crosby.
Humans are omnivores, and animals are food. Get over it. A wolf has no reservation in regards to killing and eating a rabbit for survival, and neither should humanity have any reservations in killing and eating animals for sustenance.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
(June 13, 2013 at 10:33 am)Maelstrom Wrote: Humans are omnivores, and animals are food. Get over it. A wolf has no reservation in regards to killing and eating a rabbit for survival, and neither should humanity have any reservations in killing and eating animals for sustenance.
We've been over this a zillion times. We have a choice, the wolf does not. "Sustenance"? There's plenty of very good scientific evidence we're healthier or at least as healthy without meat, which is also better for the environment and therefore ensures our "sustenance" also in the long run.
"Men see clearly enough the barbarity of all ages — except their own!" — Ernest Crosby.
