Physicallity and Undetectibility

[Baalzebutt]

I would like to get some clarification on an issue that is raised around here from time to time.

When questioned about god, theists will tell you that god is not perceivable in a traditional/physical sense. He is a being that is outside space/time and therefore cannot be tested, measured or falsified. In short, science doesn't work on god.

When questioned about miracles, the theists will inevitably agree that they do occur and that god does work in our lives. Determining what constitutes a miracle is another discussion altogether but suffice it to say, there is some disagreement on the subject.

In any case, here is the problem: You claim that your god is beyond the realm of science yet you claim that miracles happen every day, right here in the real world. Things that occur in the real world ARE TESTABLE BY SCIENCE.

So how is it that god is undetectable to science but his actions (miracles) are testable? And why is it that in the entire history of mankind, not a single "miracle" has ever been proven to be an actual miracle?

[Doubting Thomas]

The usual answer is "God works in mysterious ways" or "How dare you question the all-powerful God Almighty? You're going to burn in Hell!"

[Baalzebutt]

The usual answer is "God works in mysterious ways" or "How dare you question the all-powerful God Almighty? You're going to burn in Hell!"

Oh, I am quite sure there is a table reserved for me in hell. Good thing it doesn't exist!

[Faith No More]

So how is it that god is undetectable to science but his actions (miracles) are testable?

[Silver]

So how is it?

The simple answer is that god is not real. Therefore, theists make up whatever answers they want to suit the questions they cannot logically answer.

[fr0d0]

Once a miracle is performed, or God changes reality in his constant tweaking of it.... to be consistent with the first part of your post, the originator of that result also has to be beyond the scope of science to test does it not?

[Angrboda]

[Baalzebutt]

Once a miracle is performed, or God changes reality in his constant tweaking of it.... to be consistent with the first part of your post, the originator of that result also has to be beyond the scope of science to test does it not?

So what you are saying is that the event is testable but not the initiator.

Hmmm...that's convenient.

But it also produces a problem. If the event is tested and turns out to have a naturalistic cause, what makes it distinguishable from a completely natural (even if it is statistically improbable) event?

Why is god required?

[Anomalocaris]

The simple answer is theism is about the protection of a fraud. You can't protect a fraud without lying and/or making unsupportable assertions.

[Zarith]

Just another example of Christians / theists in general trying to have it both ways.