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Current time: June 28, 2022, 3:37 pm

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Santa Claus
#1
Santa Claus
I've been doing a bit of research into this, and I thought perhaps if I brought this topic up in a forum that I might get some good feedback.

In the course of my reading, I've come to my own conclusion that telling Children that Santa Claus is real has more potential to harm them than to tell them that Ol' Saint Nick is just as make-believe as Harry Potter. I understand that telling children that Santa is real has become a pasttime in many cultures, and is a Christmas tradition.

The fact that I found startling, is that telling them he's real is just as much a lie as anything. Statistics suggest that most kids turn out okay when they find out their parents were pulling a fast one on them, about 62%, if I recall correctly. The problem is, that 38% still have negative aftereffects of the lie, and mistrust of their parental units begins.

In my house, with my daughter, Santa is still a part of the Holiday Season, but we say that he's just pretend. This, I believe, will continue to stimulate her imagination and help her to grow up in a trusting, fun atmosphere.

Let's hear what some of you have to say on this, and I fully expect some disagreements (my wife actually disagreed with me on this at first, but we've had some good discussion on it and have come to an equitable solution).
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#2
RE: Santa Claus
I dont think I would enjoy taking part in some faked nonsence created in order to keep up a delusion which deceives someone.












I dont have kids.
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#3
RE: Santa Claus
(June 25, 2013 at 10:04 am)The Germans are coming Wrote: I dont think I would enjoy taking part in some faked nonsence created in order to keep up a delusion which deceives someone.

It's certainly faked, but I don't have enough information to label it as nonsense, I think. It is, after all, a tradition. Even though the tradition has religious origins, it's definitely a secular hoax. Religion and all else aside, the fact remains that it is indeed a hoax, and it's an elaborate one to pull the wool over the eyes of unsuspecting kids. Though the kids will eventually learn the truth and might even feel good about themselves for figuring it out, they may start wondering what else their parents are lying about.

I certainly did.
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#4
RE: Santa Claus
(June 25, 2013 at 10:09 am)BadWriterSparty Wrote: It's certainly faked, but I don't have enough information to label it as nonsense, I think. It is, after all, a tradition. Even though the tradition has religious origins, it's definitely a secular hoax. Religion and all else aside, the fact remains that it is indeed a hoax, and it's an elaborate one to pull the wool over the eyes of unsuspecting kids. Though the kids will eventually learn the truth and might even feel good about themselves for figuring it out, they may start wondering what else their parents are lying about.

I certainly did.

Well Santa is based on a coptic "saint" who lived in Anatolia (when it wasn`t the Ottoman Empire but a Byzantian).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas

So he aint that fake. "Saint Nikolaus" is actualy a festivity celebrated in wide parts of catholic and eastern orthodox christian Europe, as a feast of remembering the saint and giving presents (as he did).
I think it is also celebrated by the coptic christians (or by what is left of them) in the Islamic Arab world (Mordor).

He was simply invented and copied by coca cola to create a better image for marketing.

To the rest of your post I can only say that I dont have that much expirience with children to make a proper assesment, let alone a judgement.
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#5
RE: Santa Claus
If I had kids, they would not be informed that Santa Clause, the Tooth Fairy, or the Easter Bunny were real. I would be taking away childhood magic? Nonsense. They can get that from reading a good fiction book.
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#6
RE: Santa Claus
Shrugs. I did it with my two daughters, as my parents did to me and my brother.

I don't remember suddenly realizing it wasn't true anymore growing up. And if it was some exact moment it obviously didn't affect me at all. I have pretty good memories of my childhood, even from a tiny tot.

Let them find out that people make up magical men stories. This is good practice for the whole god thing.
Everything I needed to know about life I learned on Dagobah.
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#7
RE: Santa Claus
(June 25, 2013 at 10:26 am)The Germans are coming Wrote: Well Santa is based on a coptic "saint" who lived in Anatolia (when it wasn`t the Ottoman Empire but a Byzantian).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas

So he aint that fake. "Saint Nikolaus" is actualy a festivity celebrated in wide parts of catholic and eastern orthodox christian Europe, as a feast of remembering the saint and giving presents (as he did).
I think it is also celebrated by the coptic christians (or by what is left of them) in the Islamic Arab world (Mordor).

He was simply invented and copied by coca cola to create a better image for marketing.

True. I had heard that he was based on a Saint, but telling kids that someone who died is alive and well, not to mention delivering gifts on a magical sleigh pulled by flying reindeer, is the same as...well, you know, telling people that Jesus rose on the third day.

What I have to prepare for is when my daughter goes to school where kids believe in Santa Claus. When asked if she believes, she'll have a good answer to that: "In my house, we pretend that he's coming." So she can still have Santa for Christmas, but not have the burden of believing in him and then learning later that a fat man really can't come down a chimney.

Other factors to consider are various. One that comes to mind is the "naughty or nice" list, which many parents use to keep their kids in check. "Viriginia, clean your room or you'll get coal in your stocking for Christmas. Santa only rewards good girls." The pitfalls to this premise, I hope, are self-evident.

(June 25, 2013 at 11:09 am)Rahul Wrote: Let them find out that people make up magical men stories. This is good practice for the whole god thing.

This is a good argument for the good that can come from perpetuating the Santa myth. My only question to you would be why should we use this as a template? Why can't we encourage imagination and freethinking and not hinge on the hope that maybe they'll look back on this part of their childhood with a smile? Statistically there's that 38% that will not be happy about being lied to.

I'm not mad about parents doing this though. My in-laws are doing this with their son, even though they are atheists. They're using the Santa myth as a tool for their son to learn critical thinking early on, and they hope that he'll be proud of himself once he figures out the truth.

Personally, I just don't want to take the gamble.
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#8
RE: Santa Claus
(June 25, 2013 at 10:01 am)BadWriterSparty Wrote: I've been doing a bit of research into this, and I thought perhaps if I brought this topic up in a forum that I might get some good feedback.

In the course of my reading, I've come to my own conclusion that telling Children that Santa Claus is real has more potential to harm them than to tell them that Ol' Saint Nick is just as make-believe as Harry Potter. I understand that telling children that Santa is real has become a pasttime in many cultures, and is a Christmas tradition.

The fact that I found startling, is that telling them he's real is just as much a lie as anything. Statistics suggest that most kids turn out okay when they find out their parents were pulling a fast one on them, about 62%, if I recall correctly. The problem is, that 38% still have negative aftereffects of the lie, and mistrust of their parental units begins.

In my house, with my daughter, Santa is still a part of the Holiday Season, but we say that he's just pretend. This, I believe, will continue to stimulate her imagination and help her to grow up in a trusting, fun atmosphere.

Let's hear what some of you have to say on this, and I fully expect some disagreements (my wife actually disagreed with me on this at first, but we've had some good discussion on it and have come to an equitable solution).

Oh I don't know, it's difficult for me to form an unbroken chain of sound thought that leads to the conclusion that fiction is bad. Not that this would be indicative of whether or not it is, mind you, but help me get from here to there? If you could cite the source of your statistics (I'd like to see what was chalked down to santa stories and why - explicitly) that would help. I can't see mistrust of parents (and we must specifically be talking about mistrust of claims that parents may make) as being a "bad thing" in and of itself. Parents do lie...after all......
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#9
RE: Santa Claus
(June 25, 2013 at 11:12 am)BadWriterSparty Wrote: This is a good argument for the good that can come from perpetuating the Santa myth. My only question to you would be why should we use this as a template? Why can't we encourage imagination and freethinking and not hinge on the hope that maybe they'll look back on this part of their childhood with a smile? Statistically there's that 38% that will not be happy about being lied to.

I'm not mad about parents doing this though. My in-laws are doing this with their son, even though they are atheists. They're using the Santa myth as a tool for their son to learn critical thinking early on, and they hope that he'll be proud of himself once he figures out the truth.

Personally, I just don't want to take the gamble.

*shrugs* I could go either way. I didn't know at the time that 38% of kids harbored negative results from it.

Too late now for me and mine.
Everything I needed to know about life I learned on Dagobah.
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#10
RE: Santa Claus
Kids survive santa not being real a lot better than adults survive jesus not being real. I assume kids are more adaptable.
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