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Current time: March 28, 2024, 5:19 pm

Poll: The problem with Christianity lies in...
This poll is closed.
Christ Himself
2.70%
1 2.70%
Christians
40.54%
15 40.54%
Both of them
56.76%
21 56.76%
Total 37 vote(s) 100%
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Unconventional Religion
#1
Unconventional Religion
One of the greatest grievances against religion is that it is used by the powerful to keep the masses in line.

Does Christianity fit this description? By Christianity, I mean its early followers, and not the sad imitation of the church that we see today.

Christ and his disciples had a thing for being the hipsters of the ancient world.
They lived and died poor.
They willingly suffered public humiliation.
They did not found an independent state, unlike Judaism and Islam.
Their were relatively inclusive with low standards.

In the shadow of distorted vision of Christianity born from the Middle Ages, could it be possible that the problem with Christianity lies with Christians themselves?

If so, Christian morality is being misrepresented by Christians.
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#2
RE: Unconventional Religion
(July 26, 2013 at 8:24 am)Consilius Wrote: One of the greatest grievances against religion is that it is used by the powerful to keep the masses in line.

No, the greatest grievance would be that its a pile of bullshit. Close after that is that it peddles more bullshit. The whole "keeping masses in line" is somewhere around number 8 or 9.

(July 26, 2013 at 8:24 am)Consilius Wrote: Does Christianity fit this description? By Christianity, I mean its early followers, and not the sad imitation of the church that we see today.

Hell yeah.

Oh, you mean your greatest grievance? Yeah, that too.

(July 26, 2013 at 8:24 am)Consilius Wrote: Christ and his disciples had a thing for being the hipsters of the ancient world.
They lived and died poor.
They willingly suffered public humiliation.
They did not found an independent state, unlike Judaism and Islam.
Their were relatively inclusive with low standards.

As some wise man once said: "Its not the size that matters, but what you can do with it".

Early Christianity might not have had huge masses to control, but its control over the small masses it did have was extrordinary. Just look at what it got those masses to do - live and die poor, willingly suffer public humiliation, live without an independent state, be inclusive with low standards. People don't willingly do that without a great deal of controlling being done.

(July 26, 2013 at 8:24 am)Consilius Wrote: In the shadow of distorted vision of Christianity born from the Middle Ages, could it be possible that the problem with Christianity lies with Christians themselves?

If so, Christian morality is being misrepresented by Christians.

That makes sense. When something is twisted to begin with, it doesn't take much to distort and misrepresent it.
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#3
RE: Unconventional Religion
Most of the world doesn't need a religion to tell them to be poor and humiliated. Christ went to people who did this already.

Leading beggars as a beggar doesn't exactly fit the description of controlling people. I don't see an end.
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#4
RE: Unconventional Religion
(July 26, 2013 at 9:11 am)Consilius Wrote: Most of the world doesn't need a religion to tell them to be poor and humiliated.

Yes, it does. Without religion, they have no reason to remain poor and humiliated.

(July 26, 2013 at 9:11 am)Consilius Wrote: Christ went to people who did this already.

And kept them so.

(July 26, 2013 at 9:11 am)Consilius Wrote: Leading beggars as a beggar doesn't exactly fit the description of controlling people. I don't see an end.

Ofcourse it does. Controlling people isn't about making money, its about self-aggrandization. Controlling people is the end here.
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#5
RE: Unconventional Religion
(July 26, 2013 at 9:28 am)genkaus Wrote:
(July 26, 2013 at 9:11 am)Consilius Wrote: Most of the world doesn't need a religion to tell them to be poor and humiliated.

Yes, it does. Without religion, they have no reason to remain poor and humiliated.

(July 26, 2013 at 9:11 am)Consilius Wrote: Christ went to people who did this already.

And kept them so.

(July 26, 2013 at 9:11 am)Consilius Wrote: Leading beggars as a beggar doesn't exactly fit the description of controlling people. I don't see an end.

Ofcourse it does. Controlling people isn't about making money, its about self-aggrandization. Controlling people is the end here.

"Kept them so"? Where are those chains, shackles and dungeons at anyway?

Where are the marks on your wrists?
Quis ut Deus?
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#6
RE: Unconventional Religion
(July 26, 2013 at 10:03 am)ronedee Wrote: "Kept them so"? Where are those chains, shackles and dungeons at anyway?

Where are the marks on your wrists?

They are the chains of faith and the shackles of dogma keeping you in the dungeons or irrationality.

And there are no marks on my wrists. I was born free and remained that way.
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#7
RE: Unconventional Religion
I've got some marks from my Christian upbringing. Not the kind you can see though.
Everything I needed to know about life I learned on Dagobah.
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#8
RE: Unconventional Religion
Quote:Does Christianity fit this description? By Christianity, I mean its early followers, and not the sad imitation of the church that we see today.


You ask a good question and then fall into the trap of recounting exactly the same bullshit story that the power brokers put out to control the masses.

Jesus and his merry men are a theatrical prop to be used by whoever is calling the shots.

Read Bart Ehrman's "Lost Christianities."
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#9
RE: Unconventional Religion
[Image: 2w4mnt2.gif]
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#10
RE: Unconventional Religion
(July 26, 2013 at 8:24 am)Consilius Wrote: In the shadow of distorted vision of Christianity born from the Middle Ages, could it be possible that the problem with Christianity lies with Christians themselves?

There are plenty of issues with its dogma, too. Christianity seeks to devalue humanity as a whole, and it forces you to atone for something you are told it is impossible for you to avoid. It tells you that if you don't atone, you will be punished, and that that you absolutely deserve that punishment. It peddles slavery masquerading as salvation and love, and it requires you to accept a blood sacrifice, whether you like it or not.

So, no, the issue isn't just with Christians. Any religion with such an absurd amount of self-deprecation at its core would be an issue.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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