Unanswered questions

[Drich]

Leviticus plainly states that if a man lies with another man, it is an abomination. If Jesus did away with the law of Moses, how is this still an abomination, as the NT after the Gospels+Acts tries to put forth? I think this was one of my questions that you never answered, Drich. You gave me some passages to look over, swell, but you seemed to think that your justification in Cherry Picking gave you permission to glaze over my concern that I posited at you. You do believe the Law of Moses was put away, don't you?

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Maybe it's just too tough to answer because who in their right mind can make complete sense of a book full of contradictions and lies?

There are two primary question here.

One how can one consider homosexual sex a sin if one simply ignores all of the passages in the new and old testament that comdemn it as a sin.

Two, Has the OT law been nullified.

Answer 1) Even if you silence the bible and somehow justify ignoring ALL of the dozen or so passages that outright say Homosexuality is a out right sin. You still do not have a santified pretext in which Homosexual sex is permitted.

In short ALL Sex is considered a sin outside a santified Marriage. According to Christ in Mat 5 even the thought of it is a sin if your not married to the woman your thinking about.
This INCLUDES Homosexual sex. Because the bible Does NOT allow for a Santified Marriage between Man and another Man or woman and another woman, all same sex sex is considered a sexual sin. One like any other.

(The reason I did not answer you is because I've already pointed this out sevedral times in this very thread.)

Answer 2) According to Paul and to Christ Himself ALL of the OT law is still in effect.

So, why don't we follow it as Christians? Because Christians do not derive righteousness before God (morality is the word most of you use/God will not find you moral) in following the Law. Because Paul and Christ agree that if you break the slightest command you are guilty of breaking all of the Law. so therefore one must seek a righteousness Greater than the righteousness/morality that comes from trying to obey the Law.

That is what attonement it. When one accepts the gift of attonement one puts on the righteousness (morality) of Christ. And before God, (concerning sin) we stand as pure as Christ stands pure.

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I would really like to see your answer to the last post, just how do you decide, of all the almost infinite threads possible from "holy writings" which you believe to be the right one? BTW, do you believe the bible to be (forgot the term) absolutely and totally correct? Finally, I am new to the forum, but would certainly like to see you keep on giving your side of things, in fact maybe you could recruit some others willing to stand up for what they believe.

Not sure what you are asking.

How do I know the bible is correct?

Because in the bible God makes promises. If one does XYZ He will provide 123. I did YXZ and I got 123. It tried this with several other religions, and got nothing.

[Tonus]

So, why don't we follow it as Christians? Because Christians do not derive righteousness before God (morality is the word most of you use/God will not find you moral) in following the Law. Because Paul and Christ agree that if you break the slightest command you are guilty of breaking all of the Law. so therefore one must seek a righteousness Greater than the righteousness/morality that comes from trying to obey the Law.

That is what attonement it. When one accepts the gift of attonement one puts on the righteousness (morality) of Christ. And before God, (concerning sin) we stand as pure as Christ stands pure.

This implies that a person may deliberately lead a sinful life and as long as he accepts the atonement offered by Christ, he stands before god purified. Is that what you mean to say?

[Drich]

So, why don't we follow it as Christians? Because Christians do not derive righteousness before God (morality is the word most of you use/God will not find you moral) in following the Law. Because Paul and Christ agree that if you break the slightest command you are guilty of breaking all of the Law. so therefore one must seek a righteousness Greater than the righteousness/morality that comes from trying to obey the Law.

That is what attonement it. When one accepts the gift of attonement one puts on the righteousness (morality) of Christ. And before God, (concerning sin) we stand as pure as Christ stands pure.

This implies that a person may deliberately lead a sinful life and as long as he accepts the atonement offered by Christ, he stands before god purified. Is that what you mean to say?

Paul wrote a whole Chapter in Romans dedicated to answering this Very question. Read it carfully because he explains this whole concept.

6:1So do you think we should continue sinning so that God will give us more and more grace? 2 Of course not! Our old sinful life ended. It’s dead. So how can we continue living in sin? 3 Did you forget that all of us became part of Christ Jesus when we were baptized? In our baptism we shared in his death. 4 So when we were baptized, we were buried with Christ and took part in his death. And just as Christ was raised from death by the wonderful power of the Father, so we can now live a new life.

5 Christ died, and we have been joined with him by dying too. So we will also be joined with him by rising from death as he did. 6 We know that our old life was put to death on the cross with Christ. This happened so that our sinful selves would have no power over us. Then we would not be slaves to sin. 7 Anyone who has died is made free from sin’s control.

8 If we died with Christ, we know that we will also live with him. 9 Christ was raised from death. And we know that he cannot die again. Death has no power over him now. 10 Yes, when Christ died, he died to defeat the power of sin one time—enough for all time. He now has a new life, and his new life is with God. 11 In the same way, you should see yourselves as being dead to the power of sin and alive for God through Christ Jesus.

12 But don’t let sin control your life here on earth. You must not be ruled by the things your sinful self makes you want to do. 13 Don’t offer the parts of your body to serve sin. Don’t use your bodies to do evil, but offer yourselves to God, as people who have died and now live. Offer the parts of your body to God to be used for doing good. 14 Sin will not be your master, because you are not under law. You now live under God’s grace.

Slaves of Goodness
15 So what should we do? Should we sin because we are under grace and not under law? Certainly not! 16 Surely you know that you become the slaves of whatever you give yourselves to. Anything or anyone you follow will be your master. You can follow sin, or you can obey God. Following sin brings spiritual death, but obeying God makes you right with him. 17 In the past you were slaves to sin—sin controlled you. But thank God, you fully obeyed what you were taught. 18 You were made free from sin, and now you are slaves to what is right. 19 I use this example from everyday life because you need help in understanding spiritual truths. In the past you offered the parts of your body to be slaves to your immoral and sinful thoughts. The result was that you lived only for sin. In the same way, you must now offer yourselves to be slaves to what is right. Then you will live only for God.

20 In the past you were slaves to sin, and you did not even think about doing right. 21 You did evil things, and now you are ashamed of what you did. Did those things help you? No, they only brought death. 22 But now you are free from sin. You have become slaves of God, and the result is that you live only for God. This will bring you eternal life. 23 When people sin, they earn what sin pays—death. But God gives his people a free gift—eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[Whitey]

So I take it from your response that you do believe that the bible, as we can read it today, is without error, and every word is the word of God. Correct?

[Tonus]

I understand what Paul is saying. Those who accept the sacrifice of Christ are redeemed, and that redemption covers future sin, but it should not be used as an excuse to commit sin. Thank you for that.

You mention that Christians are still under the old testament law, am I understanding you correctly?

[Whitey]

So I take it from your response that you do believe that the bible, as we can read it today, is without error, and every word is the word of God. Correct?

[Drich]

So I take it from your response that you do believe that the bible, as we can read it today, is without error, and every word is the word of God. Correct?

I believe that the bible as we know it today is what God will hold us responsiable for on the day of our judgement.

So despite what the orginal may or may not have said it is to our current understanding of what was orginally said that we must give an account. To that end the bible does have absolute authority in our lives.

[Bad Writer]

Interesting. So do we need to believe, despite evidence to the contrary, that the sky is actually a firmament (dome) and that plants (day three) were created before the sun (day four)?

[Drich]

I understand what Paul is saying. Those who accept the sacrifice of Christ are redeemed, and that redemption covers future sin, but it should not be used as an excuse to commit sin. Thank you for that.

You mention that Christians are still under the old testament law, am I understanding you correctly?

Everyone is bound by OT law, unless they find a righteousness/morality that exceeds the righteousness/morality one obtains by adhearing to the Law.

Meaning once you accept Christ's attonement then you are no longer bound to the Law to define your righteousness/Morality. In otherwords once you accept attonement the Law is no longer the standard in which you will be judged Righteous/moral before God.

[Bad Writer]

Everyone is bound by OT law, unless they find a righteousness/morality that exceeds the righteousness/morality one obtains by adhearing to the Law.

Let's examine this for a second. If there is some kind of morality that exceeds what is found in the NT, then we should follow that, right? As Jesus apparently still adhered to OT teachings and even told everyone that not a jot nor tittle of that law would be done away with, then we can't even say for certain that Jesus' teachings were actually more moral/righteous.

Returning, for a second, to what you said about discontinuing what is taught in the OT if it is found to be less moral, what makes you think that people aren't doing exactly that by discarding the book itself? By doing this, most atheists here (I'll presume for a moment) are more moral than what is described in the OT, they don't follow that book, and are therefore following your suggestion.

Going a little further than this, you are also more moral than what is described in the OT; you don't practice slavery, you don't kill those who transgress the law, and you are somewhat tolerant of other beliefs despite your god's jealous nature. Why do you then urge us to follow something that even you do not? You are not following Jesus according to his own thoughts on the writings of the OT, or you would be a lot worse off than you truly are.