The Insane Logic of Statists/Socialists

[Koolay]

Here are a couple of summaries of what statists, your next door neighbour voter believes and supports. These are pretty much the common lines of 'thought' you will encounter when talking to statists:

- We need government to initiate force against us, to protect us from people that would initiate force against us.

- Making it illegal for people to work for low wages will help poor people.

- Owning a gun is immoral, unless you have a badge and blue costume then it becomes virtuous.

- We need failed professionals to teach kids how to be successful professionals.

- Forcibly teaching welfare kids about Shakespeare and ancient Egypt will be useful for their adult life.

- People selling goods and services the consumer wants voluntarily is immoral and predacious. People forced to purchase goods and services they may or may not want from the government is good and virtuous.

- Having people not be responsible for paying their healthcare bill will make them healthier.

- What the majority wants is always morally correct. Minorities are wrong because they are in the minority.

- Voluntarily acquiring profit should be punished and regulated. The Government forcibly taking people's property for profit is good.

- The government takes approximately half our earnings. But the government gives us lots of free stuff.

- The social contract exists, but we can not empirically prove the legitimacy of it.

- Having 51% of people force their will upon you is a voluntary and free society.

- Alcohol should be freely allowed, because we are consenting adults and we are not hurting anyone by drinking Alcohol. But marijuana users should be thrown in cages.

- The government forcing people to be kept in schools, unable to get jobs until they are 18 will make them richer.

- The majority of voters should dictate business regulation, economic regulation, foreign policy, domestic policy and foreign policy. The average voter is an expert and learned in these fields.

- Paper notes is real money, gold and silver is fake money.

- Making it near impossible for public school teachers to get fired will increase the quality of public education

- Initiating force against people makes the world a better place, if we can only tweak the laws enough, and put a few more people in cages we will achieve freedom.

[Faith No More]

[Crossless2.0]

The One Trick Pony returns, bearing a saddle bag full of strawmen!

[Jackalope]

Yawn.

[Tiberius]

You raise some good points, which are unfortunately balanced out by all the bad ones.

[Tonus]

- Owning a gun is immoral, unless you have a badge and blue costume then it becomes virtuous.

Heh... Minimalist has started a couple of topics on how virtuous cops are.

[Koolay]

You raise some good points, which are unfortunately balanced out by all the bad ones.

What points?

[Tiberius]

These ones:

We need government to initiate force against us, to protect us from people that would initiate force against us.

I take it you mean the "force" of "taxation or jail". Well, statists and socialists usually support taxation and don't see it as forced against them. It's a payment to be part of society and receive societal benefits.

We need failed professionals to teach kids how to be successful professionals.

Are you suggesting teachers / lecturers / professors are failed professionals? Teachers go through a lot of training, and lecturers / professors are usually people who have either been in an industry for a large number of years, or have been involved in research for a long time. Hardly failed professionals.

Forcibly teaching welfare kids about Shakespeare and ancient Egypt will be useful for their adult life.

My sister would disagree with you on the latter example, given that she is an archaeologist. A number of actors would disagree with you on the first. Teaching kids Shakespeare and about ancient Egypt might be a waste of time for some, or maybe most of the class, but at that age, most children have no idea what they want to strive for in life, so teaching them a wide range of subjects is going to give them a better understanding of what is out there.

People selling goods and services the consumer wants voluntarily is immoral and predacious. People forced to purchase goods and services they may or may not want from the government is good and virtuous.

Massive oversimplification of statism and socialism there. Statists want the government to control most, if not all, things. That doesn't mean they force you to purchase things, just that they provide the market for most / all things.

Having people not be responsible for paying their healthcare bill will make them healthier.

Healthcare isn't that simple. You can be a poor person, not have any healthcare, and still be relatively healthy. You can be a poor person, afford to pay your healthcare, but still be unhealthy. Your assumption here seems to be that people who are exempt from paying their healthcare bills will not care about their health, which is utter crap.

The government takes approximately half our earnings. But the government gives us lots of free stuff.

If the government takes half your earnings and gives you stuff, it can't legitimately be referred to as "free".

Having 51% of people force their will upon you is a voluntary and free society.

This has nothing to do with statism or socialism, but more to do with democracy.

The government forcing people to be kept in schools, unable to get jobs until they are 18 will make them richer.

Generally speaking, those with higher levels of education will earn more in the long run than those with lower levels of education.

The majority of voters should dictate business regulation, economic regulation, foreign policy, domestic policy and foreign policy. The average voter is an expert and learned in these fields.

Again, nothing to do with socialism or statism, but with how government is elected. Even capitalistic societies have average voters electing one person to represent thousands or hundreds of thousands of people, and often these elected officials have no idea about the things they are supposed to be legislating on.

[CleanShavenJesus]

You raise some good points, which are unfortunately balanced out by all the bad ones.

What points?

Quote of the fuckin' year.

[Minimalist]

Hardly failed professionals.

Must be why half of them leave the profession within 5 years. Of course, the ones who leave are probably the ones who have a clue.

I don't know where this idiot is getting his propaganda...unless FOX has an outlet in his native language but firing teachers is not the problem. Getting them to stay is.