the so fallible Bible

[John V]

So you claim that Adam knew full well what was to befall him for eating the fruit? So why would a sane person do that? Could someone bribe you with an apple to commit murder if you knew perfectly well that your were going to get caught and viciously killed for it? If you knew perfectly that there was no chance whatsoever that you could avoid the resultant fate? This is not a "likely get caught scenario, this is a 100% pure choice. What balanced in the favor of eating the fruit in Adam's mind? What could have been so worth it if he knew full well the full and complete consequences?

People do insane things. I've heard many atheists say that they wouldn't worship the god of the Bible even if given sufficient evidence of his existence. I believe them. Would that be insane?

Personally, I think Adam went along because he was afraid to be separated from Eve.

Secondly, the "sense of right and wrong" includes understanding what is right and wrong according to your own interests. You have to know whether or not it is right or wrong to act in your best interest or someone else's.

Nice stretch.

Cool, so you're saying you've found another contradiction in the bible?

No. Jesus' instructions for us aren't necessarily what he would do himself. I've never been a fan of WWJD for that reason.

[Searching4truth]

the fable Jesus may not have always 'nice' but he didn't name-call like you and your dishboy spiel.

[John V]

the fable Jesus may not have always 'nice' but he didn't name-call like you and your dishboy spiel.

Personally I'd say "brood of vipers" is heavier than dishboy, but it's a matter of opinion. Also note that B really is a dishboy.

[Searching4truth]

Jesus referred to those who were using the ideology for god for their own financial and personal benefit. You call B dishboy as a demeaning term. It would imply you look at yourself on a higher platform

[FallentoReason]

Practical consequences. Have you ever read the passage? God told them there would be negative consequences for eating the fruit.

So A&E were supposed to act out of self-interest? Can the Bible get any more morally bankrupt?

[Cinjin]

You tripped up their Johnny V. Brakeman actually has several valid, very logical points that you merely responded to with "nu-uh" poorly disguised as sarcasm. I'd say he schooled you proper.

So you claim that Adam knew full well what was to befall him for eating the fruit? So why would a sane person do that? Could someone bribe you with an apple to commit murder if you knew perfectly well that your were going to get caught and viciously killed for it? If you knew perfectly that there was no chance whatsoever that you could avoid the resultant fate? This is not a "likely get caught scenario, this is a 100% pure choice. What balanced in the favor of eating the fruit in Adam's mind? What could have been so worth it if he knew full well the full and complete consequences?

People do insane things. I've heard many atheists say that they wouldn't worship the god of the Bible even if given sufficient evidence of his existence. I believe them. Would that be insane?

Personally, I think Adam went along because he was afraid to be separated from Eve.

Secondly, the "sense of right and wrong" includes understanding what is right and wrong according to your own interests. You have to know whether or not it is right or wrong to act in your best interest or someone else's.

Nice stretch.

Cool, so you're saying you've found another contradiction in the bible?

No. Jesus' instructions for us aren't necessarily what he would do himself. I've never been a fan of WWJD for that reason.

Ah, yes, and Jesus saith unto them, "Do as I say, not as I do."
What a surprise, a christian that endorses hypocrisy from his own deity, thus producing a Get Out a Jail Free card for all Christians.

My only question now is do I listen to this Christian or the thousand others that will disagree with him? Hmmmm???

[Brakeman]

So you claim that Adam knew full well what was to befall him for eating the fruit? So why would a sane person do that? Could someone bribe you with an apple to commit murder if you knew perfectly well that your were going to get caught and viciously killed for it? If you knew perfectly that there was no chance whatsoever that you could avoid the resultant fate? This is not a "likely get caught scenario, this is a 100% pure choice. What balanced in the favor of eating the fruit in Adam's mind? What could have been so worth it if he knew full well the full and complete consequences?

People do insane things. I've heard many atheists say that they wouldn't worship the god of the Bible even if given sufficient evidence of his existence. I believe them. Would that be insane?

Personally, I think Adam went along because he was afraid to be separated from Eve.

Cool, so you're saying you've found another contradiction in the bible?

No. Jesus' instructions for us aren't necessarily what he would do himself. I've never been a fan of WWJD for that reason.

Why would he be afraid of being separated from Eve when he wasn't told beforehand that they would have to leave as a consequence? If he knew full well about all consequences, he would have known that she would then die in a few years and be without her anyway. Adam could have asked for two hotter, bustier Eve's to replace the last one, he had plenty of ribs.

It is clear that Eve and Adam made an uninformed choice in the story because god didn't give them enough information and mental skills of right and wrong. Thus their choice would have be a mistake, not a willful disobedience. In the same way we don't hold the mentally retarded culpable for social rules, god should have similarly reacted, but he didn't. He was an asshole about it. He could have restarted the world to go back in time and re-educate them about their mistake, he could have removed the temptation. He didn't because he was a dick, pure and simple.

[xpastor]

Incorrect - I've refuted the asserted error regarding camels.

Refuted??? You have cited one book published in 1975, and you haven't even quoted from it or referred to the evidence to which it may appeal. The Bible Unearthed is a much more recent book (2001) and does appeal to archaeological evidence.

No, the side with more time to type up crap doesn't win.

With the exception of the one NT example these are all drawn from the same source and all cite archaeological evidence. Definitely not crap to anyone who has not made up his mind in advance.

[John V]

Refuted??? You have cited one book published in 1975, and you haven't even quoted from it or referred to the evidence to which it may appeal. The Bible Unearthed is a much more recent book (2001) and does appeal to archaeological evidence.

The wiki link I gave earlier has quotes in the footnotes.

Scarre, Chris (15 September 1993). Smithsonian Timelines of the Ancient World. London: D. Kindersley. p. 176. ISBN 978-1-56458-305-5. "Both the dromedary (the seven-humped camel of Arabia) and the Bactrian camel (the two-humped camel of Central Asia) had been domesticated since before 2000 BC."

Bulliet, Richard (20 May 1990) [1975]. The Camel and the Wheel. Morningside Book Series. Columbia University Press. p. 183. ISBN 978-0-231-07235-9. "As has already been mentioned, this type of utilization [camels pulling wagons] goes back to the earliest known period of two-humped camel domestication in the third millennium B.C."

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You tripped up their Johnny V. Brakeman actually has several valid, very logical points that you merely responded to with "nu-uh" poorly disguised as sarcasm. I'd say he schooled you proper.

News flash: one atheist thinks other atheist is right! Film at eleven.

Ah, yes, and Jesus saith unto them, "Do as I say, not as I do."
What a surprise, a christian that endorses hypocrisy from his own deity, thus producing a Get Out a Jail Free card for all Christians.

It's not hypocritical to tell someone of another status to do other than one might do oneself. A police car went zooming by me this morning, yet he would give me a ticket if I drove as he did. Looks like I schooled you proper.

And haven't atheists ever played Monopoly? You guys talk disparagingly about get out of jail free cards, but in the game they're good things.

My only question now is do I listen to this Christian or the thousand others that will disagree with him? Hmmmm???

Yes, Christians disagree on some subjects. Are you suggesting we just walk in lockstep without thinking?

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People do insane things. I've heard many atheists say that they wouldn't worship the god of the Bible even if given sufficient evidence of his existence. I believe them. Would that be insane?

No answer on this?

[Tonus]

Why would he be afraid of being separated from Eve when he wasn't told beforehand that they would have to leave as a consequence?

Based on what is told in the story, the only thing they knew was that eating from the fruit of that tree would result in death. That may raise its own questions, in that Adam and Eve may not have appreciated what that meant (did anything die during their time in the garden? Unknown). However, Adam's reaction when god shows up indicates that he feared death much more than he feared losing Eve, since he tried to throw both Eve AND god under the bus ("the woman YOU made, she gave me to eat" etc). Eve did the same, though perhaps she was just following Adam's example (the sort of thing you might expect from a woman crafted out of a rib).

So it seems they understood the practical nature of the order not to eat from the fruit of the tree, as it seems that they were pretty scared of dying. Or maybe that was a result of eating the fruit; it wasn't until then that they had the weird reaction of suddenly being so ashamed of their nudity that they sought to clothe themselves. The story is either very poorly written or so many details have been lost to time that it's a string of statements without sufficient content to really understand what is going on. I'm thinking that the writer wasn't terribly concerned with getting the details right, as much as he was in telling an entertaining moral fable.