Are you joking?

[Little Rik]

Assuming NDE's confirms mind/brain separation is simply not safe.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree...ast-hurrah

How would you explain the fact that people who had NDE see things that they never seen in their lives before.
When they come back to life they describe what they have seen in a room next to the theater and that match exactly what is there.
They never been in that room before so how would they know what is there?

[max-greece]

Assuming NDE's confirms mind/brain separation is simply not safe.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree...ast-hurrah

How would you explain the fact that people who had NDE see things that they never seen in their lives before.
When they come back to life they describe what they have seen in a room next to the theater and that match exactly what is there.
They never been in that room before so how would they know what is there?

Got any verified accounts for these events?

In the meantime consider the following:

In a series of operating rooms around the world digital counters have been set-up. For each operation performed the counter in the room produces a random 3 digit number. The counters point upwards towards the ceiling and are usually concealed.

To date no-one who has claimed to have an NDE has even mentioned the counters - let alone reported the random number accurately.

[Bucky Ball]

Gee, this time i am a lot faster.
Only 3 1/2 sec. to come up with an answer.

I never understood why they say NDE when in reality the body and mind come to a total halt as confirmed by DOCTORS.
Do you trust doctors?
If you don't then there is no point in arguing any longer.

Clearly you are an utter amateur. No doctor ever ONCE said the body and brains came to a "complete halt". You cannot find ONE place that is ever said, or claimed. I trust some doctors. Some doctors are barshit crazy, not unlike yourself. :p

We are all different and with these differences we go in the next dimension.
The roads to Rome are all different but when you and everybody else reach Rome then the reality is only one.
The same apply to our journey toward the goal of life which is the same for everyone.
So is the goal of life that is the same not the journey to it.
In other words it does not mean that when you leave your body you will experience the same thing as Paul or Jim.
It is up to your karma and the distance that separate you from the goal of life.
If you are a rapist or a murderer you will experience rats but if you are a good person you will see a lot of nice things.
At the end when the rapist will have paid his debt then also him will experience nice things.
Capish?

All completely irrelevant. AND you actually just MADE MY POINT FOR ME. The POINT is, the JOURNEYS may be different, but the damn GOAL, if it really is the same, would be experienced as the same. That NEVER happens. People WHO CLAIM THEY GOT THERE, all saw shit, ONLY KNOWN IN THEIR OWN cultures. Capiche ? I doubt it. You missed the point entirely.

I am afraid i need a translation.
What are you talking about?

Exactly. Dead is dead. Not completely dead, is not completely dead. NO completely dead person EVER ONCE came came back, and described a NDE.

Let the scientists keep with their experiments on rats and let the human being who had their NDE talk about their experience.
So far i rely on the experience of human beings.

Human beings INTERPRET their experiences, completely unreliably.
It's proven over and over by Cognitive Neuro-science. With a de-oxygenated brain, ANYTHING is possible. It's called "hallucination".

If the brain isn't working, then how do you explain that people remember their experiences during NDEs? Memory is clearly a brain function, so if the brain was non function, they people concerned would have no memory of the event (they would also be dead - non-functional brains never, EVER restart.

THAT"S PRECISELY THE POINT. The brain IS working, partially, in a disabled state. You REALLY REALLY need a few science classes.
There is no memory without a brain. We really are done here. The epigenetics of memory is just beginning to be studied. Does your ass "remember" something ?
I was having a good day, until I was reminded of the COMPLETE state of utter ignorance some people operate in.
What is your education level ? What was the last Psych, or Biology class you took ?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Those who invented the word NDE could not find a better word to describe people who die and then come back to life.

But that wasn't what they were describing, since dead people do not come back to life. Not ever. Dead is dead. The first NDEs were so-called because that what the instruments showed - people were near death. I find hard to believe your claim that no one could come up with a better term. 'Post-Death Experience' fairly leaps to mind.

That is not true.
There are books.......
http://www.amazon.com/The-Book-Near-Deat...1571745475
...........that talk about all these experiences and they clearly say that as soon as the brain is off the consciousness take over.

I confess to not having read Ms Atwater's book. I've read a synopsis of it, however, and it seems to be a collection of anecdotes. Anecdotes are not evidence. On the other hand, I have read some of Moody's work regarding NDEs and OBEs and I find it remarkably unconvincing.

This is also in line with my yoga philosophy.

With all due respect, I don't give a rat's char-broiled arse about your yoga philosophy, except to this extent: If you believe that yoga exercises are good for you, you're probably right. But when you adopt yoga (or anything else) as a philosophy, you're that much more apt to seek out things that agree with what you already believe, without doing all that messy critical thinking that's supposed to take place.

Once again you fall in the corral of dogma. Who told you that that memory is clearly a brain function?
Physical science?

*chuckle* When damage to the brain (from injury, disease, or something else) results in impaired memory, it isn't in the least dogmatic to decide that memory is a brain function. Couple this with the established fact that specific areas of the brain affect and control memory and we're left with the position that to DENY that memory is a brain function is intellectually perverse.

Ah, this science that pretend to exit his limit and penetrate in a different dimension.

On the contrary, science accepts built-in limits. It's woo-woos like yourself who want to chuck science, decide you don't need it, and insist that any fuzzy-headed notion that makes you feel good deserves to be legitimately placed on an equal footing with the work of men and women who are actually figuring out how the universe works.

Have a good day Boru.

Haven't had a bad day yet, mate.

Boru

[downbeatplumb]

You will note that thieves, rapists, junkies look terrible but good people look a lot better and if you look at really good people they look even better.

Junkies look bad because of the drugs. They are not junkies because they look bad.
As for thieves and rapists looking horrible because they are evil.
This is just bollocks and speaks of you having a childlike perception of the world. Its like you see the world as an illustration for a Grimm fairy tale.

There was a picture on my face book of a young woman who put a baby in intensive care, she still looked very "do able" despite being evil.

[bennyboy]

You will note that thieves, rapists, junkies look terrible but good people look a lot better and if you look at really good people they look even better.

Yeah. 'Cuz Mother Teresa was a total fox, and fashion models are such wonderful, kind people.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

'enrico Wrote: If the brain isn't working, then how do you explain that people remember their experiences during NDEs? Memory is clearly a brain function, so if the brain was non function, they people concerned would have no memory of the event (they would also be dead - non-functional brains never, EVER restart.'

Erm...actually, I wrote that, not enrico.

Boru

[Little Rik]

'enrico Wrote: If the brain isn't working, then how do you explain that people remember their experiences during NDEs? Memory is clearly a brain function, so if the brain was non function, they people concerned would have no memory of the event (they would also be dead - non-functional brains never, EVER restart.'

Erm...actually, I wrote that, not enrico.
Boru

Some people get so excited that they tend to shoot the first guy they see around.
It does not matter if that guy is innocent or not.

---

Got any verified accounts for these events?

I have read about NDE on books and on the net so i have a good idea about these experiences.

In the meantime consider the following:
In a series of operating rooms around the world digital counters have been set-up. For each operation performed the counter in the room produces a random 3 digit number. The counters point upwards towards the ceiling and are usually concealed.
To date no-one who has claimed to have an NDE has even mentioned the counters - let alone reported the random number accurately.

Your limitations are evident.
In nature things get done for a reason.
If something is not important they do not get done.
NDE experiences are there to teach not to give something that is not important for the spiritual progress like the things that you are talking about so if the knowledge of these counters do not lead to spiritual progress it is obvious that they will not be taken in any consideration.

---

Gee, this time i am a lot faster.
Only 3 1/2 sec. to come up with an answer.

I never understood why they say NDE when in reality the body and mind come to a total halt as confirmed by DOCTORS.
Do you trust doctors?
If you don't then there is no point in arguing any longer.

Clearly you are an utter amateur. No doctor ever ONCE said the body and brains came to a "complete halt". You cannot find ONE place that is ever said, or claimed. I trust some doctors. Some doctors are barshit crazy, not unlike yourself. :p

We are all different and with these differences we go in the next dimension.
The roads to Rome are all different but when you and everybody else reach Rome then the reality is only one.
The same apply to our journey toward the goal of life which is the same for everyone.
So is the goal of life that is the same not the journey to it.
In other words it does not mean that when you leave your body you will experience the same thing as Paul or Jim.
It is up to your karma and the distance that separate you from the goal of life.
If you are a rapist or a murderer you will experience rats but if you are a good person you will see a lot of nice things.
At the end when the rapist will have paid his debt then also him will experience nice things.
Capish?

All completely irrelevant. AND you actually just MADE MY POINT FOR ME. The POINT is, the JOURNEYS may be different, but the damn GOAL, if it really is the same, would be experienced as the same. That NEVER happens. People WHO CLAIM THEY GOT THERE, all saw shit, ONLY KNOWN IN THEIR OWN cultures. Capiche ? I doubt it. You missed the point entirely.

I am afraid i need a translation.
What are you talking about?

Exactly. Dead is dead. Not completely dead, is not completely dead. NO completely dead person EVER ONCE came came back, and described a NDE.

Let the scientists keep with their experiments on rats and let the human being who had their NDE talk about their experience.
So far i rely on the experience of human beings.

Human beings INTERPRET their experiences, completely unreliably.
It's proven over and over by Cognitive Neuro-science. With a de-oxygenated brain, ANYTHING is possible. It's called "hallucination".

If the brain isn't working, then how do you explain that people remember their experiences during NDEs? Memory is clearly a brain function, so if the brain was non function, they people concerned would have no memory of the event (they would also be dead - non-functional brains never, EVER restart.

THAT"S PRECISELY THE POINT. The brain IS working, partially, in a disabled state. You REALLY REALLY need a few science classes.
There is no memory without a brain. We really are done here. The epigenetics of memory is just beginning to be studied. Does your ass "remember" something ?
I was having a good day, until I was reminded of the COMPLETE state of utter ignorance some people operate in.
What is your education level ? What was the last Psych, or Biology class you took ?

You are bubbling dogma after dogma.
Can you explain how is possible that many NDE experimenters have seen things inside rooms which they never been before and describe them after their NDE ?
How could they if their eyes and their brains were not working?

Take your time mate, i am not in a hurry.

[Little Rik]

Dead is dead.

Doctors pronounce them dead but they come back to life sometime after a CPR other times under different circumstances so dead is not always dead.

I confess to not having read Ms Atwater's book. I've read a synopsis of it, however, and it seems to be a collection of anecdotes. Anecdotes are not evidence. On the other hand, I have read some of Moody's work regarding NDEs and OBEs and I find it remarkably unconvincing.

You wouldn't be convinced even if you see the real evidence.
That is what the dogma do to people.
It is like going around with the blinkers on the eyes.

With all due respect, I don't give a rat's char-broiled arse about your yoga philosophy, except to this extent: If you believe that yoga exercises are good for you, you're probably right. But when you adopt yoga (or anything else) as a philosophy, you're that much more apt to seek out things that agree with what you already believe, without doing all that messy critical thinking that's supposed to take place.

In yoga meditation you do not think otherwise you can not do any meditation.
Again you show that you float in the dogma by judging things which you haven't got a clue about.

*chuckle* When damage to the brain (from injury, disease, or something else) results in impaired memory, it isn't in the least dogmatic to decide that memory is a brain function. Couple this with the established fact that specific areas of the brain affect and control memory and we're left with the position that to DENY that memory is a brain function is intellectually perverse.

You again fall in a terrible confusion.
When you say.......... memory is clearly a brain function.........i say to you that you fall in the dogma not because you say that the memory is a brain function but because you say CLEARLY as to say that only with the brain you can have a memory.
Thousand of NDE experience have demonstrated that you can remember things that you have perceived when your brain was off and this demonstrated that memory is not exclusive a brain function.
Capish?

Ah, this science that pretend to exit his limit and penetrate in a different dimension.

On the contrary, science accepts built-in limits. It's woo-woos like yourself who want to chuck science, decide you don't need it, and insist that any fuzzy-headed notion that makes you feel good deserves to be legitimately placed on an equal footing with the work of men and women who are actually figuring out how the universe works.

Did anybody told you that enrico does not need physical science?
As far as i know enrico only said ............give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's.
Any idea what this means?

Haven't had a bad day yet, mate.

Good and good night.