Posts: 2177
Threads: 45
Joined: June 5, 2013
Reputation:
39
Stupid, stupid, stupid and stupid.....
October 23, 2013 at 4:02 am
Its happened twice in 2 days now - this is very depressing!
First it was Esquilax with his question of why theists should be moral - never thought of it in those terms - FUCK!!
Yesterday it was the turn of TBS blowing up the theist explanation as to why God doesn't make himself more obvious.
To summarize the issue and his explanation:
Theists generally posit that you have to seek out God (the ASK idea) as he won't come to you. The reason they give is usually free-will - he won't force himself upon you.
Now being thicker than a tree-stump that always seemed almost reasonable to me (STUPID, STUPID, STUPID).
TBS, however, points out that providing sufficient information as to the existence of God in no way compromises free will. We know this because the devil - who was fully aware of the existence of God, still rejected him (along with all the fallen angels).
Why didn't I see this? FUCK!!
Kuusi palaa, ja on viimeinen kerta kun annan vaimoni laittaa jouluvalot!
Posts: 3188
Threads: 8
Joined: December 9, 2011
Reputation:
31
RE: Stupid, stupid, stupid and stupid.....
October 23, 2013 at 4:10 am
(October 23, 2013 at 4:02 am)max-greece Wrote: Its happened twice in 2 days now - this is very depressing!
First it was Esquilax with his question of why theists should be moral - never thought of it in those terms - FUCK!!
Yesterday it was the turn of TBS blowing up the theist explanation as to why God doesn't make himself more obvious.
To summarize the issue and his explanation:
Theists generally posit that you have to seek out God (the ASK idea) as he won't come to you. The reason they give is usually free-will - he won't force himself upon you.
Now being thicker than a tree-stump that always seemed almost reasonable to me (STUPID, STUPID, STUPID).
TBS, however, points out that providing sufficient information as to the existence of God in no way compromises free will. We know this because the devil - who was fully aware of the existence of God, still rejected him (along with all the fallen angels).
Why didn't I see this? FUCK!!
Ummm... Why didn't you see this? And I don't mean why didn't you think of it before - you can't think of all possible objections - but why didn't you literally see this? This argument has been made a few hundred times on this forum and quite a few more times by other atheist debators. Another similar argument, that god seemed to show up anywhere and everywhere according to the bible is another version of this - clearly he wasn't compromising anyone's free-will there. This argument is so common that I'm surprised you haven't come across this before.
Posts: 6896
Threads: 89
Joined: January 13, 2013
Reputation:
116
RE: Stupid, stupid, stupid and stupid.....
October 23, 2013 at 4:17 am
(This post was last modified: October 23, 2013 at 4:24 am by Mystical.)
don't feel bad, Max. That's new to me too  thank you for yet another nail in---
I mean thanks.
I'm a newbie, so these questions are new to me. Like why did god punish Eve and Adam for doing wrong when they didn't know right from wrong?
How could god justify what he did to Job in his bet with Satan if he already fucking knew what would happen?
If someone in the Bible was able to wrestle an angel, why can't we detect these things in our physical world?
there's way more, Im just too tired to think of them right now so there u go. 
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
![[Image: tumblr_n1j4lmACk61qchtw3o1_500.gif]](https://66.media.tumblr.com/5fb74c6d16622fb3dbb358509c9aec03/tumblr_n1j4lmACk61qchtw3o1_500.gif)
Posts: 2177
Threads: 45
Joined: June 5, 2013
Reputation:
39
RE: Stupid, stupid, stupid and stupid.....
October 23, 2013 at 4:18 am
Well Gee thanks Genkaus - not just stupid but blind apparently.
Dunno - obviously flew completely over my head.
I think I'll just sit here whilst what's left of the hair on my head completes its migration to my arse.
Kuusi palaa, ja on viimeinen kerta kun annan vaimoni laittaa jouluvalot!
Posts: 3837
Threads: 197
Joined: August 28, 2013
Reputation:
38
RE: Stupid, stupid, stupid and stupid.....
October 23, 2013 at 4:19 am
Eh your not stupid, just a different perspective
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Posts: 3188
Threads: 8
Joined: December 9, 2011
Reputation:
31
RE: Stupid, stupid, stupid and stupid.....
October 23, 2013 at 4:25 am
(October 23, 2013 at 4:18 am)max-greece Wrote: Well Gee thanks Genkaus - not just stupid but blind apparently.
Dunno - obviously flew completely over my head.
I think I'll just sit here whilst what's left of the hair on my head completes its migration to my arse.
Not thinking of it isn't stupid. I never thought of that argument before I saw it for the first time. Its just that it has become quite a commonplace argument.
Posts: 6896
Threads: 89
Joined: January 13, 2013
Reputation:
116
RE: Stupid, stupid, stupid and stupid.....
October 23, 2013 at 4:29 am
I've been around since who knows when and I haven't seen it..
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
Posts: 117
Threads: 2
Joined: October 20, 2013
Reputation:
3
RE: Stupid, stupid, stupid and stupid.....
October 23, 2013 at 4:43 am
And also, Satan/Lucifer didn't "reject" God in the same way atheists do... He rebelled against him but didn't start denying his existence...
Atheists reject (or at least remain unconvinced by) the CONCEPT of God. We don't "reject God" as he's not there to reject.
Posts: 19552
Threads: 177
Joined: July 31, 2012
Reputation:
92
RE: Stupid, stupid, stupid and stupid.....
October 23, 2013 at 4:50 am
Hehe... don't feel bad, max.
We're here also to learn about these things.
It's not only to look at other people on area69.
Posts: 12513
Threads: 202
Joined: January 3, 2010
Reputation:
107
RE: Stupid, stupid, stupid and stupid.....
October 23, 2013 at 7:01 am
It's a Life long exercise max...the learning bit.
keep going! 
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
|
