Christianity vs Atheism

[Doubting Thomas]

by denying something a person has already acknowledged it, therefore it cannot be unreal because that would be contradictory.

If that's true, then I'm Emperor of the World. I can imagine it, so it must be true! Bow down, you lowly knaves!

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I believe this man is a "poe"

I would like to think so and would hope that someone couldn't be that stupid, but unfortunately I know otherwise. I've heard the "If you say you don't believe in God then you really do believe in him" argument before. It didn't work then, either.

[Lion IRC]

You can not think of something and choose to deny it, your brain will not let you do that.

You are an ignorant motherfucker aren't you?

I would like to have a scholarly talk with you so I would appreciate no use in profanity.

See above response.

Calling someone names - now THAT is ignorant.

I wonder how many times I could accuse someone of incest (or pedophilia) before I got done for flaming.

Way to go showing a new member of the forum how rational people have a civil conversation.

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I called "poe" on page two. I also called "troll" in the same post. I guess he got scared off?

[freedomfromforum]

You are an ignorant motherfucker aren't you?

Calling someone names - now THAT is ignorant.

I wonder how many times I could accuse someone of incest before I got done for flaming.

Way to go showing a new member of the forum how rational people have a civil conversation.

Thank you very much I wanted the noobie to get a taste of what s/he was in for if they intend to post the crap this one does.

I'm currently working on an Apologetics project in which I need to talk to a few people who consider to be atheists and why they believe what they do.
Question 1: Why do you not believe in a God
Question 2: Why do you choose to deny the existence of a God
I'll start off with that, thank you, I look forward to an interesting conversation

And for the record, calling someone ignorant is not an insult if it happens to be the truth; for example, I'm ignorant when it comes to kissing church leaders asses to stay in god's grace, but I'm not ignorant toward sarcasm - see how that works?

And as far as the motherfucker bit, well that's just my vernacular for most ignorant theists, so take what you will from that. Either that, or his wife has children, thus rendering him, by default a motherfucker.

[Informative2016]

You're saying that I have a false idea or belief, but I would like to reiterate the fact that I can back up my beliefs as to WHY there IS a God, based on this we can see that I do not believe in delusion because I do NOT worship a false God.

That is painfully faulty logic. Is this your first trip out of your house?

Actually no it isn't. You clearly can't back up any statement as to denying God. No one can deny the existence of God, nor can they disprove God. I'm sure if no scholar can do this you can't either. And faulty logic? It is clearly not my fault you cannot comprehend a simple question

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Your response is too vague. You would not like to elaborate on that? I mean you are already accepting the fact that there is a higher power, by this you are acknowledging that there IS a God. Why do you choose not to believe in Him?

When you can demonstrate that I have said that I believe a higher power exists then we can have a conversation. Basing your (argument) on a presupposition will land you squarely where you began with this thread - nowhere. You are either a poe, or so miserably out of your league here that you'll be ousted with little effort. In either case, enjoy your volley, I won't participate in any further trolling.

A "Poe"? And its apologetic philosophy, clearly you have no knowledge to even be on this section of your forum because you're not using anything philosophical to back up your claims. Trust me, I'm not out of my league, you are clearly undermining and underestimating based on the fact that you use childish diction to make yourself feel higher of yourself, and may I add it's not working

[Lemonvariable72]

That is painfully faulty logic. Is this your first trip out of your house?

Actually no it isn't. You clearly can't back up any statement as to denying God. No one can deny the existence of God, nor can they disprove God. I'm sure if no scholar can do this you can't either. And faulty logic? It is clearly not my fault you cannot comprehend a simple question

Ugh, I did an write on this when i first joined up, here is a link
http://atheistforums.org/thread-20609.html

1. Since atheism is simply a rejection of religious claims, it has no burden of proof and if christians had proof they would not have to use logical fallacies such as shifting the burden of proof to make a argument.
2. The bible makes easily falsified claims, for example genesis 1:11 tells us that the vegetation of the earth was created before the sun. Now a earth without a sun would be something like -180 celsuis and permanently dark. Here I purpose a little experiment, take your mother's petunia or any potted plant and find a large deep freeze and put it in there, and then observe the results. There more disprovable claims then that too E.G plants after noahs flood.
3. Balant contradictions in the bible. For example in 1 john 4:12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
But in exodus 33:11
The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend. Then Moses would return to the camp, but his young aide Joshua son of Nun did not leave the tent.
And in Genesis 32:22-32 22
That night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two female servants and his eleven sons and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. 23 After he had sent them across the stream, he sent over all his possessions. 24 So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. 25 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. 26 Then the man said, “Let me go, for it is daybreak.”
But Jacob replied, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.”
27 The man asked him, “What is your name?”
“Jacob,” he answered.
28 Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel,[a] because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”
29 Jacob said, “Please tell me your name.”
But he replied, “Why do you ask my name?” Then he blessed him there.
30 So Jacob called the place Peniel,[b] saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.”
31 The sun rose above him as he passed Peniel,[c] and he was limping because of his hip. 32 Therefore to this day the Israelites do not eat the tendon attached to the socket of the hip, because the socket of Jacob’s hip was touched near the tendon.
4. Balant design flaws in human anatomy E.G A jaw that is too small to fit all the teeth, the appendix, and the fact that we use one tube for eating and breathing. These are easily avoided design flaws that would have any engineer fired. If adam did have these flaws corrected before the fall then adam would have been a different species from us, probably even a different genus.
5. The positioning of the earth in a inner solar filled with asteriods that could easily wipe out life on earth, agian a glaring over that now sapient designer would make.

So you asked for evidence, there it is.

[Informative2016]

They are atheists because they look to themselves and find what they want to be true.

If that were the case, I'd believe much different things than I do now. So while it's easy for you to make assertions, backing them up has historically been lacking.

And Informative, when are you going to answer my Page 1 response? I already demonstrated the stupidity of your questions, so perhaps you're avoiding?

Any strong Christian thinker can back up the Bible based on it's historical validity. You on the other hand are not able to disprove the bible, no one has ever done it. And I answered everything you have stated on your first response, if you'd like to better restate your question I'd be more than happy to answer it.

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I would like to restate myself, I NEVER put words into anyone's mouth, if you read my philosophical statement correctly (based on the fact that this is a "philosophical" thread) you would understand the context of my statement. I'm stating that the mind is a powerful thing, by denying something a person has already acknowledged it, therefore it cannot be unreal because that would be contradictory.

I know what you THINK you meant, and I'm telling you, DO NOT put words in our member's mouths, even if you think you can justify it with an absurd illogical philosophical premise.

Once again, when you have the capacity of an actual adult, and if you have ANY knowledge of philosophy you'll understand the fact that I am NOT adding words into anyone's mouth. One, it's not Absurd, Anselm himself wrote claims that people are not able to disprove, which is why in one of his books he destroys the FOOL's argument because it is clearly not correct. I apologize for the fact that your mind has not reached the capacity to understand my statement.

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So by your "reasoning", if you deny my buddy Zeus, you have already acknowledged there is a Zeus. Correct or not?

Stop right there and confirm or deny.

It's not MY reasoning, I'm using an ACTUAL Philosopher's claims (Anselm) in order to state my question. I can actually back up my claims, instead of stating foolish posts like some ignorant person.

Yes, I acknowledge that there is a Zeus, but I KNOW that Zeus is pure Greek Mythology, and by this you can close the question the Zeus is in fact real. On the other hand, you cannot disprove the existence of God, and by Anselm's reasoning you have already acknowledged him. Read his book, he'll probably answer your questions just like he did the FOOL in his book.

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You may not believe in God, but by denying God or accepting that there is no God you have already acknowledged the fact that there is a God. You can not think of something and choose to deny it, your brain will not let you do that.

Says who??? You?

I just thought of a three-eyed sloth living on Pluto and guess what, my brain is capable of denying it's existence and understanding that it is not real.

And the Bible is evidence that there is a God everything within the Bible has been proven to have some sort of backing, for example the Bible is historically accurate with its writings. I would like to have a scholarly talk with you so I would appreciate no use in profanity. If that's all your mind can choose to comprehend then I'm afraid that your answers are inconclusive.

Wow, you are a deluded shut-in I think maybe. Just because you claim something to be so does not make it so.

If you're truly on a "philosophical" thread you'd understand the reasoning behind the statement. I myself am NOT claiming this, Anselm, one of the GREATEST Philosophical Thinkers wrote a book on this, and he himself had a scholarly talk with the FOOL in his book, who, like you stated such ignorant question that he was verbally destroyed by Anselm because his claims are invalid and ignorant. You can't argue with a person who is making stronger claims than you because you're making yourself to be ignorant.

[Lemonvariable72]

Oh here is another great piece, infact a robert ingersoll lecture, showing the bible bunk

[Informative2016]

Zeus is a MYTHOLOGICAL Greek God, Lets restate that, MYTHOLOGICAL. Hence the fact that it is a figment of our imagination, God is NOT. You have no proof to deny the fact that there is no God, I on the other hand have the Bible, a book which has been tried to be disproved but scholars are unable to because it is historically correct and that's why atheists who do real research decide to convert to Christianity because they see the wonders that God does.

Yahweh is MYTHOLOGICAL Hebrew war god, Lets restate that, MYTHOLOGICAL. Hence the fact that it is a figment of our imagination, Zeus is NOT.

Bare assertions will get you nowhere.

And as for the bible and its happy horseshit, where to even begin?

This is pathetic. Jesus! Please send us a better apologist! For the love of Zeus!

God is NOT mythological, the Bible has historical backing to prove that God is real, which is why NO ONE can disprove it nor God. Zeus on the other hand IS mythological, hence making him a false God. I'd appreciate no use of profanity because I'm not using any. If that's all you can use then clearly you are upset at the fact that a college level thinker has better points than you. I wouldn't blame you, I'd be upset if someone would stump me too. Unfortunately you cannot because the Bible is valid.

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You may not believe in God, but by denying God or accepting that there is no God you have already acknowledged the fact that there is a God. You can not think of something and choose to deny it, your brain will not let you do that.

Are you an idiot? I do it all the time. I'm thinking of a 50 ft. tall actual leprechaun, yet my brain is quite capable to dismiss such a thing as fantasy. To think of something merely means to apprehend a collection of ideas in your head, not accept they exist.

I'm not an idiot, clearly your mind can't grasp better diction to replace such an ignorant word. Then again, I'm not surprised I'm talking to an ignorant human being. You can think of a 50ft tall man, congratulations, but in your head you know that it is NOT true. On the other hand, you do NOT know that God is untrue, no one can disprove Him, many have tried but they have been inconclusive because it is not possible to contradict historically accurate claims within the Bible.

Also note the underlined parts: you directly contradict yourself. Thus you lose.

And the Bible is evidence that there is a God everything within the Bible has been proven to have some sort of backing, for example the Bible is historically accurate with its writings.

False statement folliwed by a slippery slope fallacy. Everything in the Bible has not been demonstrated to have historical backing. Worldwide flood? No. Two original humans? No. Flight from Egypt? No. And so on.
Further, the Bible is 'historically accurate' disparately, that is, every once and a while, and even then flawed in its telling.

Correct, my apologies for this, not everything can be proven true, but for the most part, there are various sections within the Bible that have been proven true and are difficult to contradict because it is accurate. Flawed, that is an incorrect statement, none of your strongest Atheist thinkers can disprove God, they can hold a good argument, but they are disproved by the scholarly Christian philosophers.

I would like to have a scholarly talk with you so I would appreciate no use in profanity. If that's all your mind can choose to comprehend then I'm afraid that your answers are inconclusive.

If all you can respond with is thoroughly fallacious, self-contradictory and false nonsense, why should I take your [very dubious] claim of wanting to be 'scholarly' seriously? Further, curse words are just words. Only babies with no cogent response wastes time whining over an utterance of 'fuck'.

It's out of respect to not use curse words, unfortunately I restate myself as to the fact that I'm not surprised that I'm talking to an ignorant human being. Once again, I too would be upset if there was a person of higher intelligence making better statements than I, fortunately this is not the case.

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Which god are you talking about? There are so many on offer.

The ONE TRUE God, Yahweh (One of many, depending on your denomination), who is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit

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Let's Praise our Heavenly Father instead, worship of false idols is a sin.
That's not a question that can be answered, God has just always been. Being omnipotent, He was able to create the world, just like he created YOU. God is outside of time which is why no one can see him. And either, your mind is to small to comprehend the complexity of various scholars, or you're truly ignorant, but God has been proven real within the Bible, which NO atheist can disprove because it is so accurate and historically correct. Lets restate that, no one, can disprove the Bible or the existence of God, but there are thousands that can tell you why God is real.

Careful! You're giving Jesus Freaks a bad name!

Oh...wait....

I'm fortunate to say that I have a stronger mind than an ignorant human being. IF this is truly all you can state, thank you, it shows me that I have successfully outsmarted a wannabe philosophical thinker, who, might claim to be an atheist, but in reality you're most likely agnostic.

[Lemonvariable72]

Here is some historical evidence the bibe is untrue

This kind of evidence would be even more compelling if it were discovered by a christian. Well, this actually happened - take a look at Joshua 8:26-28:

For Joshua drew not his hand back, wherewith he stretched out the spear, until he had utterly destroyed all the inhabitants of Ai. Only the cattle and the spoil of that city Israel took for a prey unto themselves, according unto the word of the LORD which he commanded Joshua. And Joshua burnt Ai, and made it an heap for ever, even a desolation unto this day.

Joseph Callaway, professor at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, excavated the ruins of Ai between 1964 and 1976 and afterwards reported that what he found there contradicted the Bible version completely:

The evidence from Ai was mainly negative. There was a great walled city there beginning about 3000 B. C., more than 1,800 years before Israel's emergence in Canaan. But this city was destroyed about 2400 B. C., after which the site was abandoned. Despite extensive excavation, no evidence of a Late Bronze Age (1500-1200 B. C.) Canaanite city was found. In short, there was no Canaanite city here for Joshua to conquer (Biblical Archaeology Review, "Joseph A. Callaway: 1920-1988," November/December 1988, p. 24, emphasis mine).

Here is the link
http://fuzzyquark.comxa.com/archaeology.html

[Informative2016]

Let's Praise our Heavenly Father instead, worship of false idols is a sin.

Do you even know where you are right now?

Yes I do, if you read my first response I wanted a scholarly conversation about God, and why the people on this forum (people who claim to be atheist) believe what they do. Unfortunately people are unable to hold an actual conversation in fear that they'll be disproved
.

That's not a question that can be answered, God has just always been.

That's funny, because I've always been too, and I've never seen any god.

Correct, you cannot see God, no one can.

Being omnipotent, He was able to create the world, just like he created YOU.

Nah, god didn't do that. I did. I created the world. I was able to do that, though I'm not omnipotent. It's a skill.

Clearly I'm talking to an imbecile who is not capable of processing a clear conversation without getting offended at the fact that someone can actually disprove them and show them why they cannot in actuality be a true atheist.

God is outside of time which is why no one can see him.

I've been outside of time, and I never saw him there, either.

It overjoys me to the fact that you are clearly an ignorant person who can make no valid points. Acting like a child, congratulations, you've shown the capacity of your mindset, which is probably at the capacity of a newborn child.

And either, your mind is to small to comprehend the complexity of various scholars, or you're truly ignorant, but God has been proven real within the Bible, which NO atheist can disprove because it is so accurate and historically correct.

Lets restate that, no one, can disprove the Bible or the existence of God, but there are thousands that can tell you why God is real.

Could you try to be one of them? And can you disprove the fact that I created the universe, which is historically accurate?

If YOU created the universe you would not be behind a computer screen acting like a fool making points with an ACTUAL college level thinker. And The Bible can prove the existence of God, you on the other hand cannot disprove it, and by the little mindset that you had you probably wouldn't even come close having such thoughts.

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Now I don't think I want this guy to get banned. He's entertaining the shit outta me.

If he turns out to be a dumb 'ole Poe I'm going to be so disappointed.

If you could contradict with actual questions we would have a great conversation, unfortunately you are not capable of doing such a thing. It's fine though, I too would be afraid of being stumped by someone of higher intelligence than I.

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It would be more entertaining if he actually replies to posts.

But lol ... where do people go to learn this shit?

It's called a 4 year university, which fortunately you probably have never step foot on

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But lol ... where do people go to learn this shit?

Clown College ... er, I mean Wednesday night Bible Study

A 4 year university is where I'm currently at, thankfully they don't accept ignorant thinkers such as yourself, you probably would not even come close to being accepted to the lowest of junior colleges