Posts: 3432
Threads: 102
Joined: November 13, 2013
Reputation:
59
Conversions
November 18, 2013 at 10:19 am
Stephen Fry quote.
"Homosexuals are not interested in making other people homosexual
Homophobic people are interested in making other people homophobic "
I'll extend to
Christians are interested in making other people Christians.
And the last sentence is?
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken."
Sith code
Posts: 18504
Threads: 79
Joined: May 29, 2010
Reputation:
125
RE: Conversions
November 18, 2013 at 10:29 am
Quod Erat Demonstrandum.
Posts: 879
Threads: 11
Joined: September 17, 2013
Reputation:
31
RE: Conversions
November 18, 2013 at 10:32 am
Yeah, I get it. There are atheists who "proselytize" and spread hate. There are assholes everywhere.
However, the behavior of many religionists is so poor that hating them is pretty easy. These are the people who claim to have the moral high ground and yet are grievous assholes (popes in golden thrones), and who kill others routinely for religious reasons, and who legislate their faith on everyone. There are more of these scumsuckers than there are all atheists, the good and the bad.
Posts: 3022
Threads: 34
Joined: May 11, 2013
Reputation:
30
RE: Conversions
November 18, 2013 at 10:32 am
Anti-theists are interested in eradicating Christianity???
What answer would you give?
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
Posts: 3432
Threads: 102
Joined: November 13, 2013
Reputation:
59
RE: Conversions
November 18, 2013 at 11:11 am
(This post was last modified: November 18, 2013 at 11:12 am by Jacob(smooth).)
Nononono! I'm genuinely not trying to make any point, I'm actually asking a question! I know the position of Christians on atheists, to try to convert them. But the concept of a whole community of self defined atheists is new to me. I'm curious to know what, individually, people's feelings about theist conversions are.
Is there quite satisfaction? Complete indifference? Desire to set people free, morpheus style? The feeling that the world would be a better place without religion (which of course means you would be improving the world by converting or deprograming a theist)?
(November 18, 2013 at 10:32 am)Bad Wolf Wrote: Anti-theists are interested in eradicating Christianity???
What answer would you give? I can't give an answer because I'm not an atheist. I have no way to know what atheists want, hence the question.
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken."
Sith code
Posts: 2177
Threads: 45
Joined: June 5, 2013
Reputation:
39
RE: Conversions
November 18, 2013 at 11:20 am
(November 18, 2013 at 10:19 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Stephen Fry quote.
"Homosexuals are not interested in making other people homosexual
Homophobic people are interested in making other people homophobic "
I'll extend to
Christians are interested in making other people Christians.
And the last sentence is?
Atheists are interested in changing their minds.
Kuusi palaa, ja on viimeinen kerta kun annan vaimoni laittaa jouluvalot!
Posts: 18504
Threads: 79
Joined: May 29, 2010
Reputation:
125
RE: Conversions
November 18, 2013 at 11:21 am
(This post was last modified: November 18, 2013 at 11:22 am by LastPoet.)
I think I never deconverted a theist, ever. It is not the light bulb that needs to be changed, it is the light bulb that needs to change itself.
Not to mention that most theists aren't very low on their pride to even consider an atheist perspective.
Posts: 7140
Threads: 12
Joined: March 14, 2013
Reputation:
72
RE: Conversions
November 18, 2013 at 11:41 am
(November 18, 2013 at 11:11 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Is there quite satisfaction? Complete indifference? Desire to set people free, morpheus style? The feeling that the world would be a better place without religion (which of course means you would be improving the world by converting or deprograming a theist)?
I think that there is a sense that the world would be in better shape without religion, but I think most atheists would also recognize that it's not likely to work that way. Religion is one of the many ways in which humans separate themselves into social groups that allow them to identify friends and enemies. We use things as important as politics and social ideals and as unimportant as sports teams to create those groups and define those boundaries. My fear is that in a world without religion, we'd find something else to take its place as a great and terrible divider of people.
In my day-to-day life I make no effort to convert anyone, but even as a Christian I was careful to respect people's desire not to be preached to outside of the organized activity (yes, I was one of those annoying JWs who always managed to ring the doorbell when it was most inconvenient to do so). Since I don't go door-to-door for atheism, it's not a subject that comes up very often.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
Posts: 2177
Threads: 45
Joined: June 5, 2013
Reputation:
39
RE: Conversions
November 18, 2013 at 11:43 am
(November 18, 2013 at 11:21 am)LastPoet Wrote: I think I never deconverted a theist, ever. It is not the light bulb that needs to be changed, it is the light bulb that needs to change itself.
Not to mention that most theists aren't very low on their pride to even consider an atheist perspective.
And yet theists convert all the time. Some of the time, one would suppose, its the constant provision of information and evidence from other atheists that finally swings them round.
As it happens I did convert someone accidentally - and it didn't go well so I am a bit more careful these days.
Kuusi palaa, ja on viimeinen kerta kun annan vaimoni laittaa jouluvalot!
Posts: 1537
Threads: 43
Joined: July 24, 2013
Reputation:
31
RE: Conversions
November 18, 2013 at 12:03 pm
(November 18, 2013 at 10:19 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Stephen Fry quote.
"Homosexuals are not interested in making other people homosexual
Homophobic people are interested in making other people homophobic "
I'll extend to
Christians are interested in making other people Christians.
And the last sentence is? Atheists are not interested in making other people atheists.
As a former Christian, I was on the edge of deconversion for many months. It was the atheists that I interacted with that helped me to make up my own mind to stop believing. I was never offered anything more than the truth backed with reason and evidence, which is much more than I can say for the Christian crowd and their weak arguments and faulty proofs. I am not interested in deconverting anyone - that's a personal decision. I am however, available to offer the same truth and reasoning that once helped me to decide, and I find Christians responding well to a truth long sought, but having spent a lifetime behind the veil of religious lies and butchery.
|
