Question for Deists and Agnostics

[themonkeyman]

Hi Folks,

I was up until last night a good strong Atheist until my Deistic girlfriend raised the question 'What was before the big bang and how can something come from nothing'. I nor any scientist can answer this and generally for these questions we plug a 'God did it card!'.

Generally the God of the Bible is the easiest to plug here but my study of the Bible has lead me to not believe that it is him. And if it was its definitely not the NT Version.

Thing is this has made me think that an Intelligent Being may have designed the Universe so I have a question for Deists How can you Reconcile that a God may exist but he is also not the God of the Old Testament. I have the fear of hell come back because of this so I need some encouragement out of this trap.

Second all atheists here I ask for your help to get me out of this Hole. No one can prove or disprove the big bang so all I am asking is that you give me some evidence that discrets the bible God's existence.

Cheers,

[Silver]

The Big Bang Theory is no less credible as a source of proof just because people tend to be confused with the scientific definition of theory.

A scientific theory is based on proof we currently have as opposed to the intellectually lazy goddidit.

[Darkstar]

Thing is this has made me think that an Intelligent Being may have designed the Universe so I have a question for Deists How can you Reconcile that a God may exist but he is also not the God of the Old Testament.

I am not a deist, but I think I can answer your question. The god of the OT is credited with a lot more than just creating the universe, including things that are generally understood to be natural. Considering the number of gods that people claim (and have claimed) to exist, a deistic god seems far more likely because deism only needs to defend the claim that some sort of god created the universe. However, even if a prime mover were necessary (which it may not be), there is no reason it would have to be an intelligent one.

Also, goddidit is generally a bad answer to something humans don't understand. Links:
Argument from ignorance
God of the gaps

[Whateverist]

Oh I don't know .. how hot is this deist babe? If so, I can understand where your cognitive dissonance might be coming from. It just isn't that important. Go to her, make beautiful babies and raise them as pagans.

[Drich]

Hi Folks,

I was up until last night a good strong Atheist until my Deistic girlfriend raised the question 'What was before the big bang and how can something come from nothing'. I nor any scientist can answer this and generally for these questions we plug a 'God did it card!'.

Generally the God of the Bible is the easiest to plug here but my study of the Bible has lead me to not believe that it is him. And if it was its definitely not the NT Version.

Why?

Thing is this has made me think that an Intelligent Being may have designed the Universe

Who says you can't teach an old monkey/man new tricks?

so I have a question for Deists How can you Reconcile that a God may exist but he is also not the God of the Old Testament. I have the fear of hell come back because of this so I need some encouragement out of this trap.

Instead of simply looking for a way out why not embrace that fear and use that energy to honestly and with an open mind follow the evidence the Bible provides to determine if God is real or not? There is a reason you keep retuning to this well of Hell and Fear. You hear a calling the others appearently do not. At least not yet.

Second all atheists here I ask for your help to get me out of this Hole. No one can prove or disprove the big bang so all I am asking is that you give me some evidence that discrets the bible God's existence.

Cheers,

that's funny. Never mind if God is real or not, your knee jerk reaction is to ask your peers to teach you how to bury your head in the sand like they have, so as to not hear God calling you?

[themonkeyman]

Hi Folks,

I was up until last night a good strong Atheist until my Deistic girlfriend raised the question 'What was before the big bang and how can something come from nothing'. I nor any scientist can answer this and generally for these questions we plug a 'God did it card!'.

Generally the God of the Bible is the easiest to plug here but my study of the Bible has lead me to not believe that it is him. And if it was its definitely not the NT Version.

Why?

Thing is this has made me think that an Intelligent Being may have designed the Universe

Who says you can't teach an old monkey/man new tricks?

so I have a question for Deists How can you Reconcile that a God may exist but he is also not the God of the Old Testament. I have the fear of hell come back because of this so I need some encouragement out of this trap.

Instead of simply looking for a way out why not embrace that fear and use that energy to honestly and with an open mind follow the evidence the Bible provides to determine if God is real or not? There is a reason you keep retuning to this well of Hell and Fear. You hear a calling the others appearently do not. At least not yet.

Second all atheists here I ask for your help to get me out of this Hole. No one can prove or disprove the big bang so all I am asking is that you give me some evidence that discrets the bible God's existence.

Cheers,

that's funny. Never mind if God is real or not, your knee jerk reaction is to ask your peers to teach you how to bury your head in the sand like they have, so as to not hear God calling you?

I don't hear God calling me so far I have heard so much evidence to prove your Christian God wrong all I am asking is for someone to bolster that again.

Your God is an evil bastard who has no problem smashing kids heads on rocks.

[Drich]

I don't hear God calling me so far I have heard so much evidence to prove your Christian God wrong all I am asking is for someone to bolster that again.

and yet you still fear Hell... Seems to me if there is a Hell, there is a God. Meaning if you still fear Hell deep down you still feel there is a God.

Your God is an evil bastard who has no problem smashing kids heads on rocks.

Moo Ha Ha ha.. I'd be more concerned with my going to hell, than someone's 3000 year old wishes to smash their captures kids heads against rocks.

[themonkeyman]

I don't hear God calling me so far I have heard so much evidence to prove your Christian God wrong all I am asking is for someone to bolster that again.

and yet you still fear Hell... Seems to me if there is a Hell, there is a God. Meaning if you still fear Hell deep down you still feel there is a God.

Your God is an evil bastard who has no problem smashing kids heads on rocks.

Moo Ha Ha ha.. I'd be more concerned with my going to hell, than someone's 3000 year old wishes to smash their captures kids heads against rocks.

Actually dude, I don't fear hell as that came in with the NT. The Old Testament never said Hell in the same meaning or effect.

Jesus himself was just a fanatic like Matius at the time both performing miracles and doing bull shit magic tricks.

I raise the question with you - How do you know the Bible is true? Take the Gnostic works for example you as a Christian will reject them as made up so how come we cannot hold your NT works in the same stead.

Secondly you may say that if the Bible was false it would not have lasted this long well my argument to this is the fact that Gnostic works are also present so does this not imply that these should also be scriptural?

When I thought about the Big Bang theory today I immediately jumped that it was the God Yahweh, But when from time to time I get the 'What If' thought in my head I realize that

1) Yahweh has 3 different religions (Judaism / Christian / Islam)
2) Each religion opposes the other two.
3) Each religion teaches an alternative way to follow God and warns against the other two.

So to take the premise that I wanted to believe in God my big question is which view point do I take? Deep down I would take Judaism if I had a choice because Christianity and Islam are divides in the core belief.

I am slowly coming round to how absurd Yahweh actually is again. See you are concerned with going to Hell yourself. Do you think that God doesn't know that you are only using him to 'Be Safe' e.g. Pascals Wager.

To be honest you have helped me hear @Drich,

I would rather be roasting in Hell forever knowing that others are probably there with me. Than to be in heaven knowing my loved ones aren't there and having to worship the guy who is torturing them.

Ooh and also.

You make it seam that God is a tyrant here bound on blood - Hell is literally the Wrath of God. But considering your God is Just would his wrath not be Justified? Meaning that I should just leave it to him for my consequences knowing that he will punish me fairly for eternity proportional to the crime.

God said an Eye for an Eye he did not say an Eye for 2 Legs so nothing is making me think that he is going to be unfair about a Fatherly punishment. Perhaps however that's what you are wanting!

Considering his Hypothetical Son came to earth to teach about turning the other Cheek can we not presuppose that God wont turn the other cheek too. Otherwise he would be very wrong in teaching humans to do something he cannot?!

And lastly

Apocalypse of Peter :: - Yes the book that was in the Original Bible at Nicea.

"My Father will give unto them all the life, the glory, and the kingdom that passeth not away, ... It is because of them that have believed in me that I am come. It is also because of them that have believed in me, that, at their word, I shall have pity on men... "

So unless you care to refute Jesus own wording in a version of his Scripture that was Authorized until Johns Revelation bumped it which no one knows why! Then please feel free to do so.

But I do make one strong point - Do not use the Apostle Paul as the person to make your arguments as I would rather hear it from Jesus mouth!.

[Tonus]

I was up until last night a good strong Atheist (snip)

I have the fear of hell come back because of this so I need some encouragement out of this trap.

Seems as if you still have the subconscious terror of hell that was ingrained in you. This isn't surprising, as it seems the subconscious is very difficult to "reprogram." Which means that you will continue to have these episodes where a fear of hell terrorizes you for a time.

I would point out that you do not seem to have any fear or belief in god, just a very acute fear of hell. Seems as if you're a fairly "strong atheist", as you put it. But that mental land mine won't be so easy to get rid of. I don't think that there are any easy or automatic fixes for that, aside from confronting the fear whenever it arises. The better you understand that fear, the more progress you'll make in overcoming it, IMO.

[Faith No More]

Nothing makes me more certain that the Christian god doesn't exist than reading through the idiotic drivel his followers spout on this site. Just look at Drich''s responses here.

You show me a follower of Christ, and I'll show a god so incompetent that it can't possibly exist.