Where do you want to end up?!

[themonkeyman]

Hey Folks,

I have been thinking about this recently and I really don't know which is the better option?!

If we only had a black and white choice

1) Heaven = (Where God Dwells) we serve him and worship him day and night forever and ever. Praying and Singing Hymns, No chocolate fountain, no holidays by the beach none of that. And all knowing your family is in Hell.

2) Hell = Place of (Justified) Torment according to the Bible. The Majority will end up here. Everyone here will have a distaste for God and for Jesus and will have been sent here for any transgression.


See although Hell looks on the whole as the place not to Go when you realize all the Christians that will make it to heaven I kind of don't really want to go there. Also if I know that my mum / sister / dad etc are in Hell burning why the fuck would I want to worship the guy causing that?

Secondly,

Christians make up opinions of hell. Literally it says torments (e.g. Undesirable) it does not say torture with a dagger up your ass. I would be tormented if my cat scratched all my freshly painted walls but it doesn't mean that I am physically in pain.

Anyway moving on a bit, Based on the Christian Premise that God is Just. Would this not then mean that God would only punish us to what is Justified. E.g. God being Justified will show us cause and effect.

Many prisoners who commit murder don't think prison is unjustified for their Actions so why would hell be any different?!

As much as the Christian fear of hell is still instilled in me - I would rather end up there knowing that God lost someone he claims to have loved and to hurt him for it than to goto heaven and me knowing my loved ones aren't there.

Thirdly,

This one is the strangest thing According to the God in the Christian Bible in the OT it would appear that everyone will Goto hell!

[Zazzy]

I'd rather receive eternal life right here- I like living. I'm waiting for the Anne Rice-style vampire to come. No death at all! Eternal youth and beauty!

[Minimalist]

Wait until your knees start to hurt and your back aches, Zazz. In a couple of billion years the sun will expand, destroy the earth and no one will be around to remember a fucking word of any of this god shit.

[Drich]

Hey Folks,

I have been thinking about this recently and I really don't know which is the better option?!

If we only had a black and white choice

1) Heaven = (Where God Dwells) we serve him and worship him day and night forever and ever. Praying and Singing Hymns, No chocolate fountain, no holidays by the beach none of that. And all knowing your family is in Hell.

Your describing Chruch, not Heaven. IF Heaven were one big long church service i do not think I would want to go either.

Remember God is the God of all of creation, which means all of creation will be open to us.

2) Hell = Place of (Justified) Torment according to the Bible. The Majority will end up here. Everyone here will have a distaste for God and for Jesus and will have been sent here for any transgression.

Hell is the absence of creation or the absence of God. One can do little more there than yern to rejoin creation, and lement the foolish pride he had in life, and the choices made as a result of said pride.

See although Hell looks on the whole as the place not to Go when you realize all the Christians that will make it to heaven I kind of don't really want to go there.

According to Christ there will be a lot of 'christians' in Hell as well. "For not who say to me Lord, Lord will I know."

Also if I know that my mum / sister / dad etc are in Hell burning why the fuck would I want to worship the guy causing that?

Your statement to me is akin to a 4 year old telling his parent who has taken away his 'binkie.' That He hates them and will alway hate them for the rest of his life no matter what just because they seperated him from his beloved binkie. "When I was a child I thought and acted like a child, but when I grew up I put away childish things."

In this life how this larvel state of existance how do you know what an who you will hold in high regaurd for the rest of eternity?

Secondly,

Christians make up opinions of hell. Literally it says torments (e.g. Undesirable) it does not say torture with a dagger up your ass.

Who sai.. What church.. were did you get the idea that Hell is being poke in the ass with a dagger?

I would be tormented if my cat scratched all my freshly painted walls but it doesn't mean that I am physically in pain.

Why are you so sure that Hell is physical in nature?

Anyway moving on a bit, Based on the Christian Premise that God is Just. Would this not then mean that God would only punish us to what is Justified. E.g. God being Justified will show us cause and effect.

Is a "Just punishment" a standard the condemned get to make in our soceity for themselves? Is their any criminal who truly believes his punishment is 'just?'

Many prisoners who commit murder don't think prison is unjustified for their Actions so why would hell be any different?!

Never worked with inmates have you? Ever even been to jail? Ever seen shawshank redemption? If you had you'd know that everyone in prision is innocent, or at the very least had a very good reason if not forced by circumstance to do what they did.

As much as the Christian fear of hell is still instilled in me - I would rather end up there knowing that God lost someone he claims to have loved and to hurt him for it than to goto heaven and me knowing my loved ones aren't there.

What makes you think God 'claims' to love everyone? If we are talking about the God of the bible then know the bible specifically says God does NOT Love everyone. There is even a list of those in whom it says God hates.

Thirdly,

This one is the strangest thing According to the God in the Christian Bible in the OT it would appear that everyone will Goto hell!

What makes you think that?

However in the end know that God and Heaven is not for everyone. That is our purpose here, is to decide or rather prove to ourselves whether or not that in our hearts we want to spend an eternity with God.

[Doubting Thomas]

Seeing as how the bible says that only 144,000 people will get to Heaven, and only the most fervent, righteous god-botherers would probably be there, that would be hell to me.

[c172]

I'd rather, as Zazzy said, have eternal life (as long as society had the medical infrastructure to cope).

But with the choices given, I find it hard to answer. Different Christians have different ideas of what hell is. I'll take Heaven, as weird as it sounds, over the physical torment of swarms of wasps, bullets flying from random directions, gorillas anally raping me, and the air being similar to the California gas chamber.

But if Hell means eternal disassociation from God (or was it Jesus? I forget), and Heaven is simply eternally hanging out on His right hand (or however that goes), well...both seem boring on their own. I at least need a good internet connection. And bagels and hummus. Without that, I can't decide.

[themonkeyman]

Id be the same as Zazzy and I am sure we are Churning Along.

Strangey - If Heaven and Hell do exist and they are there for Eternity how the heck is that supposed to Happen. Eternity is without beginning and end and its our Human way of defining something that is 0 < T So in theory hell will be nothing and the same with heaven. Also why does God need to dwell in a place called Heaven ?

Lastly - I have seen many Christians on this Forum and quite frankly the prospect of spending the rest of eternity with these same people who would wish cancer on me or having Hitler (After all he believed in God) I dont really think my sense of Justice in heaven would be very fair.

[LastPoet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwGuR711cwM

[themonkeyman]

Well see this is my problem I have with the Heaven / Hell Concept why do we only have one choice. E.g. we were programmed to always sin unless we get some form of redemption.

The problem with this argument is that the Redemption form is so weak in evidence / stablity and structure that Its hard to say 'I Believe'

[Drich]

Seeing as how the bible says that only 144,000 people will get to Heaven, and only the most fervent, righteous god-botherers would probably be there, that would be hell to me.

What were you Johovah wittness or mormon?

The book of Revelation says there will be 144K Jews who will goto Heaven 12K from each tribe. Christ says that anyone (non-jew/gentile/you) who 'believes' in Him will not perish but have everlasting life.