Tell Me Again Why....

[Captain Colostomy]

This is why you're not objective people . Being objective will always cause you to lose .

Huh???

[Minimalist]

I would want to be friends .

But only on your own terms.

[Rayaan]

The obvious difference is that Jews today are not stoning people to death.

Not today, yes, but they used to; stoning is in the Torah.

"If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city." - Deuteronomy 22:23-24

"The adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death." - Leviticus, 20:10

The Quran abrogated the stoning law with no more than a 100 lashes.

You proudly pronounce that lashing is a legitemate form of punishment whereas stoning is something that you'd prefer to distance yourself from. Both are barbaric.

What would be a non-barbaric punishment for a crime, then? Besides, "barbaric" is subjective, to some degree.

Lashing is probably less barbaric than the CIA's abusive torture techniques (which most people don't even know anything about):
http://www.salon.com/2007/06/21/cia_sere/
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/02/g...doing.html

It's difficult to imagine how one can reform the process of stoning/lashing someone for a crime.

Islam does allow you to reform (right after committing a crime) - and thereby avoid the stoning/lashing punishments entirely - which is simply by repenting, making an intent never to return to that sin, and that you never reveal your sin to anyone. If a Muslim who committed adultery does those three things and if there are no witnesses against him (there has to be at least 4) and if no one can present a strong evidence for his crime to a judge, then he cannot be punished even if he is guilty.

There is much more flexibility in the Islamic penal system than that which you can learn about by reading the article below:

Reflections on the Islamic Penal Law (by Faysal Burhan)

[WesOlsen]

What would be a non-barbaric punishment for a crime, then? Besides, "barbaric" is subjective, to some degree.

Lashing is probably less barbaric than the CIA's abusive torture techniques (which most people don't even know anything about):
http://www.salon.com/2007/06/21/cia_sere/
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/02/g...doing.html

Yep waterboarding techniques are dreadful, as are other sensory torture techniques. Both are terrible and neither have any place in a civilised world. Thankfully the overwhelming majority of the developed world does not subscribe to physical torture/beatings, certainly the legal code in say, Britain, does not dish out anything like this level of brutality. Illegal millitary incursions aside, the INTERNAL justice systems of practically every developed country have abolished beatings/lashings/whippings/stonings and sensory torture long long ago.

It's difficult to imagine how one can reform the process of stoning/lashing someone for a crime.

Islam does allow you to reform (right after committing a crime) - and thereby avoid the stoning/lashing punishments entirely - which is simply by repenting, making an intent never to return to that sin, and that you never reveal your sin to anyone. If a Muslim who committed adultery does those three things and if there are no witnesses against him (there has to be at least 4) and if no one can present a strong evidence for his crime to a judge, then he cannot be punished even if he is guilty.

There is much more flexibility in the Islamic penal system than that which you can learn about by reading the article below:

Reflections on the Islamic Penal Law (by Faysal Burhan)

So if someone rapes a child (let's say a 14 year old girl) whilst nobody is watching, but then pleads forgiveness and pledges to reform themselves etc, they will essentially not be punished? I wonder how difficult it is to convince an ignorant and foolish sharia court that someone is very sorry for what they did and that they intend to never do it again? Where is the justice for the family of the victim then? Or do the family simply disown the victim as appears to be the case in many high profile stories over the last few years?

Even if the criminal is honestly sorry for their crimes and is let off, who monitors their 'intention' to lead a better life from there on after, and how can justice be seen to be done to the family of the victim (or the victim themselves for that matter?). If the criminal is not sorry but is able to fool the court in to believing he is sorry, then even more of a fuck-up has taken place.

This legal system is utterly ridiculous, it is based on the assumption that some things are crimes but cease to be crimes so long as the criminal submits to some absurd notion of god. Justice is essentially completely suspended. This is why we hear so much of rape victims being told to marry their abusers, or rape victims been punished for adultery by way of lashings and beatings etc, and this from some of the wealthier gulf and north african states. This is why the developed world sees Islamic legal traditions as dated and backwards. It aids neither reform NOR justice for victims and relatives. I'm sure you can reply with some fantastic examples of just how flexible the amazingly unflexible islamic way of life is, but I think most of us have heard more than enough over the past few years on what Islamic justice looks like.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Incorrect.

I do not have to respect anything unless I personally feel it has first earned my respect.

Besides, stupid beliefs that rely upon childish Tinkerbell-like faith for its survival in the fantasy land of a delusional mind does not deserve respect.

Also I dont like your life style and belief system but I dont insult you . Because I respect your freedom of belief . I have never called a person to be muslim during my life , but some people always call me to be an atheist , this is another type of disrespect and oppression .

You have no respect for people . You just want everthing to be the way you want , so selfish .

Nonsense.

Beliefs don't 'deserve' respect. Yours, for example, are a pile of shit.

You as a person however, I don't know. Insulting your beliefs is not the same as insulting you. You understand this, right?

Respect is earned, not given. The beliefs that go hand in hand with Islam deserve derision and to be called out. They will be respected when people believe that they deserve to be respected. This is an individual decision, not something that can be enforced.

[Minimalist]

Insulting your beliefs is not the same as insulting you. You understand this, right?

$10 on "No."

[Fidel_Castronaut]

It's difficult to imagine how one can reform the process of stoning/lashing someone for a crime.

Islam does allow you to reform (right after committing a crime) - and thereby avoid the stoning/lashing punishments entirely -

But Rayaan, the fact that it's even considered as a punishment to be used contradicts the entire notion of it being reasonable or justifiable.

which is simply by repenting, making an intent never to return to that sin, and that you never reveal your sin to anyone. If a Muslim who committed adultery does those three things and if there are no witnesses against him (there has to be at least 4) and if no one can present a strong evidence for his crime to a judge, then he cannot be punished even if he is guilty.

There is much more flexibility in the Islamic penal system than that which you can learn about by reading the article below:

Reflections on the Islamic Penal Law (by Faysal Burhan)

Thanks for the link.