Hitler and the Holocaust

[Tails Turrosaki]

Now, before you go all, "HITLERDIDN'TDOITINTHENAMEOFHISRELIGIONYOUFUCKTARD!!!" on me, I have been told on my other site that Hitler did not kill in the name of his religion. Rather, he killed out of them just for being ethnically Jewish (I know more than just Jews were killed, too... But let's leave that out of the picture for now... Also, Judaism could be considered an ethnicity).

Hitler's religion is unknown. OK? There have been times where he seemed Christian, and other times where he seemed Atheist. Nobody knows, really. But point is, he did not kill in the name of his religion.
I just want to make this clear before you bring up the Holocaust card in a religious debate...

Hitler did not kill in the name of his religion.
Hitler's religion is unknown.

He might have said some stuff about God in there, and he might of said some stuff degrading God, maybe something about magical dinosaur in the sky... We don't know. We just don't. There's really no proof for his belief, even if he said he was Christian, he could have been lying to get attention from the country to enslave these Jews. We just. Don't. Know.

Also, do not bring up Hitler as an "anti-Christ". Please? Just don't. There's no proof he was an anti-Christ. It could just be a coincidence for all we know, and to claim it as a fact makes you ignorant.

Be rational when debating religion, so don't bring up Hitler...

... ... ... ... I feel really insecure about posting this. ._.

[theblindferrengi]

Hitler was very smart, he did everything he did because it served to further his goals. The hate he focused on the jews that led to the holocausts was to give his people a morale boost, in that telling them all of Germany's current problems (and there were so many) were not the people's fault. This allowed them to go on with life, and to wage another great war that they would have won had Japan not pissed off the United Statesians when they did. Because of hitlers ruthless leadership, Germany whent from a defeated nation, beaten down and in economic ruin, to a major world power, almost taking over the world, in only 3 years. If the Germans had been able to claim victory over Europe before the United Statesians stepped in, they would have most certianly won the entire war.

[littlegrimlin1]

Agreed, he was a man of his knowings. I think he emphasized on eugenics (take out the bad genes so only good are left), with jews having the bad genes. I believe eugenics should be emphasized in today's society also, just in a slightly more peaceful way, considerably.

[Minimalist]

If the Germans had been able to claim victory over Europe before the United Statesians stepped in, they would have most certianly won the entire war.

And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

By December, 1941 Hitler had already failed in the Battle of Britain and suffered a serious defeat in Russia which spelled his doom. The inability to knock Russia out in a blitzkrieg meant a war of attrition that Germany could not win.

Nonetheless, he then proceeded to compound his mistakes and failures by declaring war on the US a few days after Pearl Harbor thus greatly simplifying things for Roosevelt. On December 8, 1941 Roosevelt had a nation which was royally pissed at Japan and didn't give two shits about Germany. Hitler's Treaty with Japan did not obligate him to support Japan in a war of aggression as the Japs made clear when they did not declare war on Russia in June, 1941 when Hitler invaded the USSR.

Hitler declared war because he wanted to get everything out in the open. It was his second biggest mistake of the war.

Now, that said, can anyone explain what the point was of the OP?

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

I believe eugenics should be emphasized in today's society also, just in a slightly more peaceful way, considerably

WHY?

You seem to be arguing people can be genetically modified, like plants and that perhaps that's a good idea.. It smells a little of the nature/nurture dichotomy.

OR are you simply suggesting removing genetic predisposition to some things;such as certain diseases and impairments?

Eugenics was popular well before the Nazis came to power as were several theories of racialism. (alive and well in the US and Australia until well after WW2) The Nazis put some principles of eugenics into practice,albeit very crudely. EG murdering the mentally impaired,the insane and some phsyically handicapped people.

With the development of knowledge of DNA from early 1950's, manipulation of the human genome has become a real possibility. My concerns is one of degree. IE exactly what will we try to modify? I have no doubt there are still idealogues who want to create a herren volk or the perfect soldier and scientist naive enough or corrupt enough to try.

Action T4 (German: Aktion T4) was a program, also called Euthanasia Program, in Nazi Germany spanning October 1939 until August 1941, during which physicians killed 70,273 people[1] specified in Hitler's secret memo of September 1, 1939 as suffering patients "judged incurably sick, by critical medical examination",[2] but described in a denunciation of the program by Cardinal Galen as long-term inmates of mental asylums "who may appear incurable".[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_T4

Hitler's views on eugenics

Adolf Hitler read racial hygiene tracts during his imprisonment in Landsberg Prison. He thought that Germany could only become strong again if the state applied to German society the principles of racial hygiene and eugenics.

Hitler believed the nation had become weak, corrupted by the infusion of degenerate elements into its bloodstream.[citation needed] These had to be removed quickly. He also believed that the strong and the racially pure had to be encouraged to have more children, and the weak and the racially impure had to be neutralized by one means or another.

The racialism and idea of competition, termed social Darwinism in 1944, were discussed by European scientists, and also in the Vienna press during the 1920s, but how Hitler picked up these ideas is uncertain.[2] In 1876, Ernst Haeckel had discussed the selective infanticide policy of the Greek city of ancient Sparta.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_eugenics

[Meatball]

I'm sorta confused about this thread. The OP is pretty much:

Adolf Hitler.

Discuss.

[Violet]

@padriac: everything about eugenics depends on implementation. So long as it is not mandatory (except in life threatening cases or in severely life damaging cases?)... I think that genetic improvements could be made to humans in many ways (ie: extended youth/lifetimes, increased ability to gain muscle mass, genetically improved muscular density/strength, cures for genetic blindness/deafness/etc.).

It's all about implementation, really.

[Edwardo Piet]

I'm sorta confused about this thread. The OP is pretty much:

Adolf Hitler.

Discuss.

The OP seems quite clear to me: "Hitler didn't do what he did because he was Catholic! You don't know he was Catholic! He could have just as easily been an atheist, or even an atheist pretending to be Catholic! Don't play the holocaust card to blame one further thing on religion!" - etc., etc., etc., lol.

EvF

[Minimalist]

I have a hunch that you're right, EvF, but it did seem as if he were Posting-Under-the-Influence.


Anyway, since religion is self-declared:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/j...itler.html

Hitler seeking power, wrote in Mein Kampf. "... I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews. I am doing the Lord's work." Years later, when in power, he quoted those same words in a Reichstag speech in 1938.

Three years later he informed General Gerhart Engel: "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so." He never left the church, and the church never left him. Great literature was banned by his church, but his miserable Mien Kampf never appeared on the Index of Forbidden Books.

He was not excommunicated or even condemned by his church. Popes, in fact, contracted with Hitler and his fascist friends Franco and Mussolini, giving them veto power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop in Germany, Spain and Italy. The three thugs agreed to surtax the Catholics of their countries and send the money to Rome in exchange for making sure the state could control the church.

Those who would make Hitler an atheist should turn their eyes to history books before they address their pews and microphones. Acclaimed Hitler biographer, John Toland, explains his heartlessness as follows: "Still a member in good standing of the Church of Rome despite detestation of its hierarchy, he carried within him its teaching that the Jew was the killer of god. The extermination, therefore, could be done without a twinge of conscience since he was merely acting as the avenging hand of god..."

Seems to have ben a fairly cozy relationship. And now, one of his former henchmen is pope!

How special.

[Tails Turrosaki]

I'm stating that Hitler and religion don't have much in common, and often people use Hitler as an excuse. I was not saying he was an Atheist or a Catholic or whatever because that is unknown (I'm not going to be an idiotheist and be all "HE WAS (blah) YOU FUCKTARDS GRARARHAFRGRGA FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUU!!!")
The OP was to pretty much say that you shouldn't really bring up the Holocaust/Hitler in a religious debate; it's a poor example, like Stalin (was it Stalin...?) who just happened to be Atheist and killed a shitload of people. He didn't kill in the name of Atheism, just like Hitler didn't kill in the name of whatever religion he was.

That's all I'm sayin'.