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RE: God is timeless
December 6, 2013 at 11:34 am
(December 5, 2013 at 8:13 am)Ben Davis Wrote: I think that life is finite because of the evidence: death. People die in their hundreds of thousands every day. Animals die in their millions every day. All life meets some form of end. There is no credible evidence, none at all, that 'life' continues after death. Consequently my understanding of the finite nature of life is not an article of faith rather my response to the demonstrable facts.
What can you demonstrate?
You see a dead body and that is all you can see.
Can you or anyone with their physical senses can see something that is not physical like the consciousness or soul?
How can you be so naive?
If this is not blind faith what the hell is it?
Is a bit like thinking that when your car end up in the scrap yard you also have to end up there.
Who told you that the connection between body, mind and consciousness has got to persist for ever and ever? 
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RE: God is timeless
December 6, 2013 at 11:59 am
(December 6, 2013 at 11:34 am)enrico Wrote: What can you demonstrate?
You see a dead body and that is all you can see.
Can you or anyone with their physical senses can see something that is not physical like the consciousness or soul?
How can you be so naive?
If this is not blind faith what the hell is it?
Is a bit like thinking that when your car end up in the scrap yard you also have to end up there.
Who told you that the connection between body, mind and consciousness has got to persist for ever and ever?
Can you demonstrate that life is infinite?
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: God is timeless
December 6, 2013 at 12:27 pm
(December 6, 2013 at 11:34 am)enrico Wrote: What can you demonstrate?
You see a dead body and that is all you can see. That's all there is.
Collins Dictionary Wrote:dead (dɛd Pronunciation for dead )
Definitions
adjective
1. no longer alive
2. not endowed with life; inanimate... Life ends. Deal with it.
Quote:Can you or anyone with their physical senses can see something that is not physical like the consciousness or soul?
Actually, we can see consciousness thanks to neural imaging. There's simply nothing to suggest any supernatural component to it. As for 'soul', since there's absolutely no credible evidence for it, I don't even need to respond.
Quote:How can you be so naive?
Pot, kettle, black.
Quote:If this is not blind faith what the hell is it?
Reason and physical evidence.
Quote:Is a bit like thinking that when your car end up in the scrap yard you also have to end up there.
Why? Since when is a car ever part of the human physiology? Major analogy fail.
Quote:Who told you that the connection between body, mind and consciousness has got to persist for ever and ever?
Who told you that they were separate things?
Sum ergo sum
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RE: God is timeless
December 6, 2013 at 12:30 pm
(This post was last modified: December 6, 2013 at 12:47 pm by Little Rik.)
(December 6, 2013 at 11:59 am)Bad Wolf Wrote: (December 6, 2013 at 11:34 am)enrico Wrote: What can you demonstrate?
You see a dead body and that is all you can see.
Can you or anyone with their physical senses can see something that is not physical like the consciousness or soul?
How can you be so naive?
If this is not blind faith what the hell is it?
Is a bit like thinking that when your car end up in the scrap yard you also have to end up there.
Who told you that the connection between body, mind and consciousness has got to persist for ever and ever?
Can you demonstrate that life is infinite?
First of all let us say that you can not demonstrate that life is finite.
Said this there is the evidence of thousand of NDE that clearly say that life goes on after physical death.
As you can see while i got something real you got nothing to demonstrate the contrary. 
(December 6, 2013 at 12:27 pm)Ben Davis Wrote: (December 6, 2013 at 11:34 am)enrico Wrote: What can you demonstrate?
You see a dead body and that is all you can see. That's all there is.
That is speculation Ben. (your speculation)
Quote:Quote:Can you or anyone with their physical senses can see something that is not physical like the consciousness or soul?
Actually, we can see consciousness thanks to neural imaging. There's simply nothing to suggest any supernatural component to it. As for 'soul', since there's absolutely no credible evidence for it, I don't even need to respond.
Is your......neural imaging.......able to see what happen after physical death?
Let me know Ben. 
Quote:If this is not blind faith what the hell is it?
Quote:Reason and physical evidence.
Physical evidence?
You still have to explain how physical power can manage to enter the realm of pure consciousness which is not physical. 
Quote:Is a bit like thinking that when your car end up in the scrap yard you also have to end up there.
Quote:Why? Since when is a car ever part of the human physiology? Major analogy fail.
Human body is like the body of a car.
Without a driver can not go anywhere.
Oh, sorry, i forgot about the zombies!
Quote:Who told you that the connection between body, mind and consciousness has got to persist for ever and ever?
Quote:Who told you that they were separate things?
They are connected when we are alive.
This does not mean that they would be connected for ever.
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RE: God is timeless
December 6, 2013 at 1:13 pm
Rational AKD
I perhaps should have appended absolute onto the front of the word truth.
My point is this. In order to have any kind of understanding of something physical, it must be examined.
E.g. I have a box, with an object inside it. How else can you determine what is in the box, other than examining it in a physical way? You can't deduce what is in the box with zero physical evidence, though could perhaps if you did have some, say a miaowing noise.
Any deduction you make must be based on something physical.
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RE: God is timeless
December 6, 2013 at 2:00 pm
You guys, Enrico has been the same way He was since his arrival. I do hope that You all are regarding your communications with him as entertainment, because He is definitely in a loop.
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RE: God is timeless
December 6, 2013 at 2:05 pm
Near death experiences are not death experiences. In NDE, the person doesn't actually die, their brain doesn't die, their cells don't die. Their heart and lungs may stop working for a bit but nothing actually dies otherwise they wouldn't be able to come back and tell you about it.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: God is timeless
December 6, 2013 at 2:55 pm
(December 6, 2013 at 2:05 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: Near death experiences are not death experiences. In NDE, the person doesn't actually die, their brain doesn't die, their cells don't die. Their heart and lungs may stop working for a bit but nothing actually dies otherwise they wouldn't be able to come back and tell you about it. Technically you are somewhat correct, although for an NDE the brain functions associated with mental properties have ceased completely. What makes NDE compelling is not so much the experiential aspects as it is recovering with knowledge unobtainable to the experienencer like their ability to sometimes recount remote events. That said no neurological theory yet accounts for the cross cultural similarities of the NDE narratives.
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RE: God is timeless
December 6, 2013 at 2:57 pm
What do you mean, cross cultural similarities of NDEs?
Muslims see Allah
Christians see God
Hindus see loads of gods
Not similar
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: God is timeless
December 6, 2013 at 3:02 pm
(December 6, 2013 at 2:55 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: (December 6, 2013 at 2:05 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: Near death experiences are not death experiences. In NDE, the person doesn't actually die, their brain doesn't die, their cells don't die. Their heart and lungs may stop working for a bit but nothing actually dies otherwise they wouldn't be able to come back and tell you about it. Technically you are somewhat correct, although for an NDE the brain functions associated with mental properties have ceased completely. What makes NDE compelling is not so much the experiential aspects as it is recovering with knowledge unobtainable to the experienencer like their ability to sometimes recount remote events. That said no neurological theory yet accounts for the cross cultural similarities of the NDE narratives. (emphasis added)
Citation needed. (and don't screw it the fuck up like last time)
You mean, no neurological theory other than that we're all neurologically similar because we are all the same species. [and citation needed here as well]
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