Any Vegetarians/Vegans here?

[StoryBook]

You can be healthy with an omnivore diet, vegan diet, vegetarian diet and others. You can also be unhealthy with these diets. they can be benificial and not benificial. It really just depends on how you handle it. I'm personally a vegetarian for ethical and health (not that you can't be healthy with an omnivore diet like I've mentioned, but for me, what I eat is very healthy.)

Fundamentally I agree, one can be healthy or unhealthy with all these diets. However when one eats meat this increases exposure to health risks, which leads to disease. That's why on average vegans have reduced mortality compared to meat eaters

You like shoving things down people throats, don't you? Posting silly links about health isn't going to make me stop eating Oreo's(which are vegan) and other junk food. You know the sun can be bad for ones health.

[James2014]

No they don't, I've pointed this out to you. You have not posted a single shred of credible evidence to show any health benefit in giving up eggs and/or dairy from a vegetarian diet. None whatsoever.

There are plenty of studies showing the health risks associated with dairy and eggs, however compared to a meat eating diet a vegetarian diet is significantly healthier and indeed protective against a number of diseases.

To start with here is one study showing that while a vegan diet reduced all cancer mortality, a vegetarian diet only reduced gastrointestinal cancers

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Fundamentally I agree, one can be healthy or unhealthy with all these diets. However when one eats meat this increases exposure to health risks, which leads to disease. That's why on average vegans have reduced mortality compared to meat eaters

You like shoving things down people throats, don't you? Posting silly links about health isn't going to make me stop eating Oreo's(which are vegan) and other junk food. You know the sun can be bad for ones health.

You do realise I just said "one can be healthy or unhealthy with all these diets"? I absolutely agree, a poorly planned vegan diet is very unhealthy.

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We do have the bacteria (all land animals do I believe) but it doesn't produce enough B12 for our bodies - we still need to eat it. Herbivores have much more of the bacteria and produce more since their digestive systems are very different to ours. Our bodies also produce proteins too you know, and still we need protein in our diets - and the same can be said for most nutrients that we're supposed to eat.

Our bodies produce proteins, but they do not produce essential amino acids, which is why we need them in our diet. Similarly our body produces many types of fat, including cholesterol, but we need the precursors of these to be able to produce them. In the case of cholesterol this is produced from acetyl-CoA, which is in turn created from either glucose metabolism or from the breakdown of other fatty acids. Like the requirement for essential amino acids, this is one of the many reason why we need glucose and and fat in our diet. We do not however require cholesterol

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many vegans who do not take supplements or fortified foods become anaemic from lack of b12.

A diet that requires supplements to work does not sound healthy.
I am sure if you took enough supplements you could live on a diet of dirt. Maybe you should try it and spare the lives of so many plants.

Firstly, the facts simply disagree with you, veganism is a very healthy diet and produces a number of health benefits.

Secondly plants don't suffer so killing them is of no ethical concern.

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You like shoving things down people throats, don't you?

I am not shoving anything down your throat, as I said I would not advocate making meat eating illegal. This is a forum for debate, and I am debating. If you disagree with my argument, that's fine, but I wont stop thinking that eating meat is wrong and cruel, unless you provide me with a good reason why my argument is wrong

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I was a vegetarian when I was pregnant. I popped out my son, started breast feeding, and literally made maybe an ounce of milk every 4 hours between both breasts. I was eating healthy as I could but something wasn't working. My physician told me to start eating meat and my milk increased. I don't know why. I must have been lacking SOMETHING in my diet.

I love animals but if my doctor says "try this"... I'm trying it.

If you don't mind me asking, did your doctor tell you that breastfeeding requires an increase in about 500 calories per day and that it is recommended that breastfeeding mums should be taking the appropriate supplements required for health?

[KUSA]

plants don't suffer so killing them is of no ethical concern.

Wrong again!

http://www.smithsonianchannel.com/sc/web...nd-to-pain

[LastPoet]

That's where the cookie crumbles, VegFundies (to distinguish from those that are and don't care about what others eat), don't consider that plants may also suffer. In their insanity, they contribute and perpetuate the lies for ethics & health just to pretend to be on a moral high ground.

[James2014]

plants don't suffer so killing them is of no ethical concern.

Wrong again!

http://www.smithsonianchannel.com/sc/web...nd-to-pain

Nope. There is a difference between nociception (or whatever the analogous process in plants is) and the actual perception of pain. Plants are able to detect stimuli and activate a set of pre-encoded effects, but they are not able to learn associatively, and they are not able to integrate multiple sensory inputs to create new representations of the world to actually be conscious and experience pain. Animals can.

If you were to actively search out evidence for and against plants being able to feel pain, instead of mindlessly typing into google something like "plants feel pain", you would immediately see the link you posted was nonsense.

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That's where the cookie crumbles, VegFundies (to distinguish from those that are and don't care about what others eat), don't consider that plants may also suffer. In their insanity, they contribute and perpetuate the lies for ethics & health just to pretend to be on a moral high ground.

VegFundies? Well vegans and vegetarians are not the ones killing others in the name of their beliefs, whereas meat eaters certainly are.

Lies of heath? Are you kidding me? Let alone all the evidence I have posted, why would the biggest professional body of nutritionists (the ADA , although now called the AND) in the US, and indeed the world, agree that a vegan and vegetarian diet is healthy and protective against a number of diseases? You know the the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that is recognized by the United States Department of Education as the only accrediting agency for professional dietetic education programs? Are they all lying too?

[StoryBook]

You like shoving things down people throats, don't you? Posting silly links about health isn't going to make me stop eating Oreo's(which are vegan) and other junk food. You know the sun can be bad for ones health.

You do realise I just said "one can be healthy or unhealthy with all these diets"? I absolutely agree, a poorly planned vegan diet is very unhealthy.

You like shoving things down people throats, don't you?

I am not shoving anything down your throat, as I said I would not advocate making meat eating illegal. This is a forum for debate, and I am debating. If you disagree with my argument, that's fine, but I wont stop thinking that eating meat is wrong and cruel, unless you provide me with a good reason why my argument is wrong

Aww did I strike a nerve? Since you quoted my post twice just to try and shove more shit down mine and others throats. You do realize that your the one that keeps changing his argument/reasoning. You fail to see the whole picture and just change your "defense" on the matter. We are only defending ourselves, but you take every chance you get to shove your bullshit down someones throat. The reason I made that comment was to point out that even with a neutral comment you take it upon yourself to spread more bullshit to make yourself feel better.

[James2014]

Aww did I strike a nerve? Since you quoted my post twice just to try and shove more shit down mine and others throats. You do realize that your the one that keeps changing his argument/reasoning. You fail to see the whole picture and just change your "defense" on the matter. We are only defending ourselves, but you take every chance you get to shove your bullshit down someones throat. The reason I made that comment was to point out that even with a neutral comment you take upon yourself to spread more bullshit to make yourself feel better.

Yes, you did strike a nerve, I find it very frustrating that all you do to justify cruelty to animals is appeal to nature and make ad hominem attacks. I can't be that surprised I suppose, its very hard to shrug off the same old religious ethical baggage that most people from our culture carry with them. You have just moved the basis for your ethics on from "it's God what told me to do it" to "it's Nature what told me to do it". And of course as atheists used to feeling a sense of ethical superiority over those naughty religious folks, it must come as rather a shock to be forced to have to rely on such weak arguments to justify your behaviour. Which of course leads to the ad hominem and insults.

[bennyboy]

KichigaiNeko, you say veganism is just a preference, but if there are ethical reasons to go vegan, such as reducing suffering of animals, reducing environmental damage, and improving health, then if that is true people SHOULD go vegan.

What part of

"It's YOUR personal preference" don't you understand?

What part of "Don't tell me what I Should" do just to make you feel less guilty.... That road leads to religion

Is this what you are advocating jg? A Vegan religion?

Fucking children is a "personal preference," too. So is cannibalism. What is the relationship between something being a personal preference and something being right or wrong?

Is it a social norm? Was slavery right when it was more popular? If slavers said "If you don't want slaves, that's your problem. Don't interfere with my personal preference."

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many vegans who do not take supplements or fortified foods become anaemic from lack of b12.

A diet that requires supplements to work does not sound healthy.
I am sure if you took enough supplements you could live on a diet of dirt. Maybe you should try it and spare the lives of so many plants.

We use many unnatural things in order to bypass the consequences of living naturally. We use condoms, for example, to avoid making babies or getting diseases.

We also insist on behaviors that go against instinct in order to protect others. Plenty of men would fuck a 14 year-old girl if it was okay to do so. It is not considered okay, because though the girl can't defend herself, her feelings and sufferings are (these days) taken into account.

We do these things because we are the species that forms its world to fit its ideals-- it's what we do. So the only real impediment to a vegetarian diet, saving millions of animals from suffering, is our willingness to do so.

[bennyboy]

No, we merely shouldn't try to force our ways on to other people. If someone has a personal preference then they can keep it to themselves.

Morality & ethics should be left up to the individual to decide for themselves. Don't try & force your ethics onto me. I will determine my own ethics.

Morality is in fact a product of persuasion and debate. If it were individual, then you'd have a society of 50 year-old men individually deciding it was perfectly moral to fuck 14 year-old girls, or of people deciding all property should be shared and then sharing their neighbor's new sports car. But the fact is that these actions have been demonized, and will be strongly punished by the community.

As for forcing views-- look at the thread title. The correct response to "Any vegetarians/Vegans here?" is "Here I am" and "Hey, me too, small world, nice to meet you." It's a little ironic to enter a thread with that particular title, rave against the OP, and then claim that vegetarians are forcing their views on anyone-- nobody was forced to hear or listen to anything that has been written in this thread. You'll note that in the OP la ban dien SPECIFICALLLY said he/she was looking to meet like-minded people, and was not interested in engaging in a debate with meat-eaters. So who's forcing their ideas on whom?

[StoryBook]

Aww did I strike a nerve? Since you quoted my post twice just to try and shove more shit down mine and others throats. You do realize that your the one that keeps changing his argument/reasoning. You fail to see the whole picture and just change your "defense" on the matter. We are only defending ourselves, but you take every chance you get to shove your bullshit down someones throat. The reason I made that comment was to point out that even with a neutral comment you take upon yourself to spread more bullshit to make yourself feel better.

Yes, you did strike a nerve, I find it very frustrating that all you do to justify cruelty to animals is appeal to nature and make ad hominem attacks. I can't be that surprised I suppose, its very hard to shrug off the same old religious ethical baggage that most people from our culture carry with them. You have just moved the basis for your ethics on from "it's God what told me to do it" to "it's Nature what told me to do it". And of course as atheists used to feeling a sense of ethical superiority over those naughty religious folks, it must come as rather a shock to be forced to have to rely on such weak arguments to justify your behaviour. Which of course leads to the ad hominem and insults.

The irony of your post is hilarious. For you it seems "PETA told you to do it" or " The ALF told me to do it".

I'm not just appealing to nature;I'm also appealing to biology, animal behavior, animal health, my personal ethics, your ethics and reality. You fail to see these things. You fail to plan. You fail to see both sides, and see things as whole. You jump the gun to make everyone's personal CHOICE seem wrong if they don't agree with you. It's no wonder you are getting "attacked" for it. You don't even seem to understand your own argument