Any Vegetarians/Vegans here?

[bennyboy]

Cattle have a comfortable life of leisure.

Right up until the point where their throats are slit for kosher/halal foods, you mean? Or until they are crammed into a stall and have a bolt gun shot through their heads?

As for eggs - most eggs seem to be free range these days, regardless you always have that option so they can also be assured that the chickens are living well and happy.

"Seem" is a pretty subjective word. I don't think what you are saying is true.

As for the option-- I believe that those who WANT the option are only able to have it because those who eat the many more eggs which are mass-produced by chickens in chicken-sized cages are diverted by the cheaper cost. Supply and demand benefits by people willing to buy crap.

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So much for the asian vegetarian diet.

Who said there WAS one?

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For me, the things that define the value of human experience are not opposable thumbs, the ability to make fires, or the ability to work with Quantum Mechanics. It is in starting life with a loving bonded relationship with one's mother. It is about social interactions and altruism. It is about the joy of sensation, and the terror of damage to the self. And mammals and birds, while they have different physical forms than us, and much lower IQs (by our standards), are clearly similar in their capacity to feel and to care.

Well what about an orphaned, psychopath hermit, whose mother died during childbirth? Is this hypothetical person not human?

Exactly.

There are many humans who have absolutely NO inclination to altruism. They produce little, harm much, and have no respect for the lives or suffering of others, even other humans. And yet in most countries, even these lives are considered sacrosanct. On the other hand, you have peaceful grazing animals who are morally clean. They are sentenced for the crime of existing to death, before they are even born.

And are these deaths really so compassionate and pain-free as we say? If so, why doesn't the US have bolt-gun-to-the-head as one of its death-sentence options?

[Bad Wolf]

On the other hand, you have peaceful grazing animals who are morally clean. They are sentenced for the crime of existing to death, before they are even born.

Farm animals aren't 'morally clean'. They are amoral.

And are these deaths really so compassionate and pain-free as we say? If so, why doesn't the US have bolt-gun-to-the-head as one of its death-sentence options?

Probably because the US doesn't eats convicts they sentence to death. I doubt many people would want to eat a cow that died of lethal injection for fear of contamination.

[KichigaiNeko]

Cattle have a comfortable life of leisure.

Right up until the point where their throats are slit for kosher/halal foods, you mean? Or until they are crammed into a stall and have a bolt gun shot through their heads?

As for eggs - most eggs seem to be free range these days, regardless you always have that option so they can also be assured that the chickens are living well and happy.

"Seem" is a pretty subjective word. I don't think what you are saying is true.

As for the option-- I believe that those who WANT the option are only able to have it because those who eat the many more eggs which are mass-produced by chickens in chicken-sized cages are diverted by the cheaper cost. Supply and demand benefits by people willing to buy crap.

---

So much for the asian vegetarian diet.

Who said there WAS one?

---

Well what about an orphaned, psychopath hermit, whose mother died during childbirth? Is this hypothetical person not human?

Exactly.

There are many humans who have absolutely NO inclination to altruism. They produce little, harm much, and have no respect for the lives or suffering of others, even other humans. And yet in most countries, even these lives are considered sacrosanct. On the other hand, you have peaceful grazing animals who are morally clean. They are sentenced for the crime of existing to death, before they are even born.

And are these deaths really so compassionate and pain-free as we say? If so, why doesn't the US have bolt-gun-to-the-head as one of its death-sentence options?

You are showing all the signs of 'Orthonervosa' Benjamin

[Aractus]

Cattle have a comfortable life of leisure.

Right up until the point where their throats are slit for kosher/halal foods, you mean? Or until they are crammed into a stall and have a bolt gun shot through their heads?

Your point being?

As for the option-- I believe that those who WANT the option are only able to have it because those who eat the many more eggs which are mass-produced by chickens in chicken-sized cages are diverted by the cheaper cost. Supply and demand benefits by people willing to buy crap.

Chicken-sized cages? How do they get 3-10 chickens inside one of these "chicken sized cages" then?

And are these deaths really so compassionate and pain-free as we say? If so, why doesn't the US have bolt-gun-to-the-head as one of its death-sentence options?

Or right, so you think you can hang livestock on the gallows then? Or electrocute them to death. This argument is quite bizarre, the human-inflicted deaths may not all be pain free, but they're a lot less traumatic than death in the wild.

[shep]

Just youtube animal cruelty aractus, you will see that they have anything but a comfortable life of leisure.

[bennyboy]

You are showing all the signs of 'Orthonervosa' Benjamin

How so?

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Farm animals aren't 'morally clean'. They are amoral.

The semantic difference notwithstanding, cows have done very little to people to cause any grievance. On what moral basis, then, do we unilterally decide on their behalves how they may live and how they should die?

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Chicken-sized cages? How do they get 3-10 chickens inside one of these "chicken sized cages" then?

Good question. And the more important one-- why do they do it?



Here's the thing. I'm guessing in Australia and even America, the percentage of facitilities that treat animals like this is small. But I'll wager the percent of food animals who have been treated like this is like 90%. That's because it would take about 100 normal mom-and-pop ranch-style farms to raise as many chickens as a single mass-production facility.

I think the following wiki link provides some pretty good numbers and details. It's worth sourcing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poultry_farming

[Vegan atheist]

Vegan here

[Dystopia]

I'm a vegan for moral reasons just wanted to know if any others are here.

I have no interest in your opinions if you are NOT one I have heard every 'steak tastes good' peta stands for people eating tasty animals argument thanks. Just want to know if anyone else is one?

Personally I hate PETA and their acting/ideas, but I have a question even though I'm not a vegetarian (I'm mostly carnivore but I eat some fish and a lot of vegetables) - What are the main reasons that make people become vegetarians? I have nothing against such diets, a female of mine became one recently and she pointed out 'ethical and health' reasons. I'm just curious to know what reasons people have specifically or at least the most predominant reasons. Again nothing against vegetarians as long as you don't insult me for eating meat and being different or bitch about people being omnivores most of the time. By the way, how do I distinguish a vegan from a vegetarian?

[psychoslice]

I'm mostly vegetarian, but i'll have a little bit of fish here and there.

[bennyboy]

I'm a vegan for moral reasons just wanted to know if any others are here.

I have no interest in your opinions if you are NOT one I have heard every 'steak tastes good' peta stands for people eating tasty animals argument thanks. Just want to know if anyone else is one?

Personally I hate PETA and their acting/ideas, but I have a question even though I'm not a vegetarian (I'm mostly carnivore but I eat some fish and a lot of vegetables) - What are the main reasons that make people become vegetarians? I have nothing against such diets, a female of mine became one recently and she pointed out 'ethical and health' reasons. I'm just curious to know what reasons people have specifically or at least the most predominant reasons. Again nothing against vegetarians as long as you don't insult me for eating meat and being different or bitch about people being omnivores most of the time. By the way, how do I distinguish a vegan from a vegetarian?

I'm vegetarian because my moral sense is based on the understanding of the suffering of others, and because I see no sound logical reason to limit the protection from suffering to humans.

As for vegan vs. vegetarian: a vegan will not consume products with any animal matter, specifically dairy.