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(December 14, 2009 at 8:32 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: It increases the problem - which is entirely possible. He never said it causes it as you claimed.
Prove that abstinence doesn't work. Are you saying promiscuity prevents AIDS?
theVOID said "his claim that Condoms cause AIDS to spread faster" (my bolding). That isn't a claim that condoms cause AIDS, but that condoms spread AIDS faster.
This is a blatant lie. It's not "entirely possible" at all. Having sex with a condom dramatically reduces the chances of you catching AIDS.
Yes, abstinence works too (if you are *actually* abstinent and not just claiming to be), but most people don't want to stop having sex, so condoms are the next best thing!
The pope has continually blamed condoms for the spread of AIDS, and the fact that a rational person such as yourself defends him is disgusting.
hock:
OMG - You did not just call fr0d0 a rational person!
(December 13, 2009 at 9:53 am)LEDO Wrote: Seems to me that a God can: 1) Stop people from suffering, but does not. 2) end disease, but does not, 3) end death but does not, 4) end poverty but does not, 5) end starvation, but does not ...meets the definition of evil.
Looks like to me like the devil is God in exile. I would worship your god, if he was nicer.
Niceness is something I can't attribute to God. If man were nicer I'd have more faith in my fellow man. On your above points how does inaction = evil. If I don't help 1 homeless man but 1000 others does that make me evil? Just because he doesn't stop your suffering, your diseases, etc. doesn't mean he doesn't supply that to others. Even if the only thing I believe he's done is kickstarted our universe; that's enough for me to thank him daily.
If you have the ability to help a 1001 homeless people and single out one individual to ignore, that may not make you evil, but just an asshole to one homeless guy.
What if there are 1001 homeless in a city and I tell them all to come line up and get 20 dollars. 1000 of them line up and get their money. Why am I being an asshole, because he couldn't follow simple instructions? And if we're going somewhere with this metaphor, I've told him in a language he can understand and all of the other homeless have suggested to him to line up.He simply refuses to line up.
December 15, 2009 at 9:35 am (This post was last modified: December 15, 2009 at 9:36 am by chatpilot.)
To line up as in submit your life and will to this god?
The bible attributes all evil and good to god.
Deuteronomy 32:39
39.See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
Let's not forget the so called plagues that fell upon Egypt came from god and so did the destruction of Sodom and Gamorrah and the destruction of all living things in Genesis 6 the list goes on and on. The story of Job illustrates clearly that nothing happens without the lords consent whether it be for good or for evil.
Job 2:6
6.And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
God wanted to prove to Satan the fidelity of Job so he permitted Satan to bring all sorts of calamity to Jobs life on the condition that he does not kill Job. In our church we were taught never to question gods will that he knew what he was doing and we as his servants just had to trust his judgements.
There is nothing people will not maintain when they are slaves to superstition
(December 14, 2009 at 9:40 pm)Tiberius Wrote: theVOID said "his claim that Condoms cause AIDS to spread faster" (my bolding). That isn't a claim that condoms cause AIDS, but that condoms spread AIDS faster.
No Adrian. If you read VOID's original statement: "Because the one in this reality most definitely preaches Abstinence and makes the claim that Condoms cause AIDS."
...which is what I was quoting.. VOID is clearly moving the goalposts.
I have no problem conceding that the Pope has said the above. And I gladly concede that condom provision is beneficial. Sensationalist and inaccurate accusations help no one.
(December 14, 2009 at 9:40 pm)Tiberius Wrote: This is a blatant lie. It's not "entirely possible" at all. Having sex with a condom dramatically reduces the chances of you catching AIDS.
Yes, abstinence works too (if you are *actually* abstinent and not just claiming to be), but most people don't want to stop having sex, so condoms are the next best thing!
The pope has continually blamed condoms for the spread of AIDS, and the fact that a rational person such as yourself defends him is disgusting.
A moral ideal remains constant that monogamy is good. Whilst exercising maximum care I would promote the use of condoms. I'm not defending the Pope, more the accuracy of the accusations.
According to the 'Hunter Theory', the "simplest and most plausible explanation for the cross-species transmission",[3] the virus was transmitted from a chimpanzee to a human when a bushmeat hunter was bitten or cut while hunting or butchering an animal. The resulting exposure of the hunter to blood or other bodily fluids of the chimpanzee could have resulted in infection.[12]
(December 13, 2009 at 9:53 am)LEDO Wrote: Seems to me that a God can: 1) Stop people from suffering, but does not. 2) end disease, but does not, 3) end death but does not, 4) end poverty but does not, 5) end starvation, but does not ...meets the definition of evil.
Looks like to me like the devil is God in exile. I would worship your god, if he was nicer.
Niceness is something I can't attribute to God. If man were nicer I'd have more faith in my fellow man. On your above points how does inaction = evil. If I don't help 1 homeless man but 1000 others does that make me evil? Just because he doesn't stop your suffering, your diseases, etc. doesn't mean he doesn't supply that to others. Even if the only thing I believe he's done is kickstarted our universe; that's enough for me to thank him daily.
If you have the ability to help a 1001 homeless people and single out one individual to ignore, that may not make you evil, but just an asshole to one homeless guy.
What if there are 1001 homeless in a city and I tell them all to come line up and get 20 dollars. 1000 of them line up and get their money. Why am I being an asshole, because he couldn't follow simple instructions? And if we're going somewhere with this metaphor, I've told him in a language he can understand and all of the other homeless have suggested to him to line up.He simply refuses to line up.
If you make the rules, you can break them so everyone gets $20....asshole.
"On Earth as it is in Heaven, the Cosmic Roots of the Bible" available on the Amazon.
December 15, 2009 at 8:24 pm (This post was last modified: December 15, 2009 at 8:26 pm by theVOID.)
(December 15, 2009 at 6:55 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:
(December 14, 2009 at 9:40 pm)Tiberius Wrote: theVOID said "his claim that Condoms cause AIDS to spread faster" (my bolding). That isn't a claim that condoms cause AIDS, but that condoms spread AIDS faster.
No Adrian. If you read VOID's original statement: "Because the one in this reality most definitely preaches Abstinence and makes the claim that Condoms cause AIDS."
...which is what I was quoting.. VOID is clearly moving the goalposts.
I have no problem conceding that the Pope has said the above. And I gladly concede that condom provision is beneficial. Sensationalist and inaccurate accusations help no one.
Actually fr0d0, that was a mistake, i didn't mean to suggest he said condoms cause aids - of course they don't, what i did mean was what i had said on all of the other occasions, he claimed condoms exacerbate AIDS - which is an outright lie used to enforce an agenda.
(December 15, 2009 at 8:10 pm)LEDO Wrote: If you make the rules, you can break them so everyone gets $20....asshole.
So you already assume the the line maker breaks the rules? I still fail to see how handing out money in a line to anyone who wants to stand in the line being an asshole. You're going to have to elaborate for me please.
(December 15, 2009 at 9:35 am)chatpilot Wrote: To line up as in submit your life and will to this god?
The bible attributes all evil and good to god.
Deuteronomy 32:39
39.See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
Let's not forget the so called plagues that fell upon Egypt came from god and so did the destruction of Sodom and Gamorrah and the destruction of all living things in Genesis 6 the list goes on and on. The story of Job illustrates clearly that nothing happens without the lords consent whether it be for good or for evil.
Job 2:6
6.And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
God wanted to prove to Satan the fidelity of Job so he permitted Satan to bring all sorts of calamity to Jobs life on the condition that he does not kill Job. In our church we were taught never to question gods will that he knew what he was doing and we as his servants just had to trust his judgements.
I'm sorry you were raised never to question. I was raised religiously to always question. Submitting your will or life to something is really just a question of sacrifice. Would you stand in line for 20 minutes for $20? Would you Chop off you leg for 5 million? What would you expect to do for eternal life and never-ending love? You submit to the will of your bladder to go pee several times a day. You submit your will to your friend offering you beer to help move a couch. The level of sacrifice (like the level of evidence) is relative. If a burning bush showed up and told me God wanted me to cut off my right arm, I'd probably try and find a way to do it because that's an easy sacrifice for 100% proof of God's promise. As it is, there is no burning bush just some words on a page and the "voices in my head" so submitting my will to that isn't any more of a sacrifice than pouring a drink for my wife really. You don't have to stand in line for the $20 just don't come crying after. I'll get off my soap box now.
hock:
