Why is evolution hiding?

[Chas]

I consider God to be the wisdom behind knowing that those traits would benefit the future Birds.

One more time: There is no evidence that there is any "would benefit in the future" in evolution. None. Nada. Zilch.

No planning, no guidance, no design.

The evidence is compelling that it is a blind, mindless process.

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Also, I've read into the personal testimonies of Scientists who converted as a result of studying the miralce worker Saints, The Shroud of Turin, The Guadalupe Mantle, etc.

Citation required.

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I've done the research with skepticism and know there is a lot of bullshit out there, but am convinced that Science has put forth evidence that has been tested by Scientific method and is in favor of a higher providential power. Aka (God)

One more time: Citation required. I know of no such evidence.

[MJ the Skeptical]

I'm wondering if some "atheists" reject the belief that life arose from non-life and evolved from simpler creatures to more complex life forms; tiny cell becomes an amoeba, then a lizard, then a monkey, and eventually you !

You can believe either way as a theist or atheist on how biological life arose. So I don't see why you're only addressing atheists unless we just go with the assumption that most of us on this forum are atheists.

I know that evolution is indeed a fact but the belief that different types of animals evolved into other species is not fact or we would see them "evolving" into other types or at least need to see this to say it is fact.

Yes is it a fact and if you have no problem with Evolution you shouldn't have a problem with "macro-evolution" either which is just lots of "micro-evolution events" over time.

Where is the evidence of cats, dogs and horses gradually turning into something else? We do see changes within species. We also see no evidence of gradual change in the fossil record either.

Funny you mention dogs and cats because they come from some of the best known lineages in the fossil record.

And again, false, we see changes in the fossil record and distinctions of how old they are.

Isn't Evolution still called a theory, a possible explanation or assumption, because it is not testable according to the scientific method?

No. A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method, and repeatedly confirmed through observation and experimentation.

The definition of Scientific theory pertains the Scientific method...

I lean more toward agnosticism actually. I have no proof there is a God.

That's a typical Elitist Agnostic dodge.

[Rampant.A.I.]

Is it really though? The only truly scientific viewpoint lacking sufficient evidence to is to withhold judgement. TC isn't doing that, and I don't do it myself most of the time, because I don't believe irrational beliefs are exempt from critical examination.

But gnostic atheists and gnostic theists both lack sufficient evidence for their conclusions.

So while TC is coming at this from a decidedly more woo and theism from a less rational basis, I can respect that he's willing to ask questions, as ridiculous as they are. What I'd like to see him do is ask the really tough questions, abandon the cushy beginners bumpers and actually wonder and entertain the abyss:

That there is no god, there is no plan, there is no life after death. There is suffering, cruelty, misery, pain, and loss.

But that's ok. When I almost died, there were no pearly gates or angels. What I got instead was an experience which showed me how precious and fragile what I have in this life is, no matter how strong I thought I was.

I've veered wildly off topic, but if there's nothing in the hereafter, how much more precious does that make our short lives?

Why fill it with willful ignorance and hope for What Dreams May Come?

Talk about slapping your creator in the face. You've been given this gift of a brief life and the ability to contemplate everything that exists and ever has existed, and people would rather retreat to fairy tales and reasons they're special and loved out of all creation, by ignoring the only reality they will ever live in?

Wake up. Stop accepting things on faith, or believing your creator, if there is one, will be upset you asked tough questions.

[Phatt Matt s]

I consider God to be the wisdom behind knowing that those traits would benefit the future Birds.

No planning, no guidance, no design.

The evidence is compelling that it is a blind, mindless process.

---

Also, I've read into the personal testimonies of Scientists who converted as a result of studying the miralce worker Saints, The Shroud of Turin, The Guadalupe Mantle, etc.

Citation required.

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I've done the research with skepticism and know there is a lot of bullshit out there, but am convinced that Science has put forth evidence that has been tested by Scientific method and is in favor of a higher providential power. Aka (God)

One more time: Citation required. I know of no such evidence.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Shroud_of_Turin

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Is it really though? The only truly scientific viewpoint lacking sufficient evidence to is to withhold judgement. TC isn't doing that, and I don't do it myself most of the time, because I don't believe irrational beliefs are exempt from critical examination.

But gnostic atheists and gnostic theists both lack sufficient evidence for their conclusions.

So while TC is coming at this from a decidedly more woo and theism from a less rational basis, I can respect that he's willing to ask questions, as ridiculous as they are. What I'd like to see him do is ask the really tough questions, abandon the cushy beginners bumpers and actually wonder and entertain the abyss:

That there is no god, there is no plan, there is no life after death. There is suffering, cruelty, misery, pain, and loss.

But that's ok. When I almost died, there were no pearly gates or angels. What I got instead was an experience which showed me how precious and fragile what I have in this life is, no matter how strong I thought I was.

I've veered wildly off topic, but if there's nothing in the hereafter, how much more precious does that make our short lives?

Why fill it with willful ignorance and hope for What Dreams May Come?

Talk about slapping your creator in the face. You've been given this gift of a brief life and the ability to contemplate everything that exists and ever has existed, and people would rather retreat to fairy tales and reasons they're special and loved out of all creation, by ignoring the only reality they will ever live in?

Wake up. Stop accepting things on faith, or believing your creator, if there is one, will be upset you asked tough questions.

Very good and thoughtful mam/sir. I have however entertained that there may be no God. My personally experience tells me differently, but I know that personal experience and testimonials have no weight in a discussion. They do apply to me however and influence my beliefs. Rightfully so.

If you prayed to God and had a miraculous transformation and repeatedly the help that you needed was given to you (imperfect as it may have been), it might influence your outlook. At the same time, it carries no water for anyone but yourself, especially in a debate. So painfully, I must leave out my personal relationship with my higher power. At least the vast majority of it.

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The answers to your questions are out there. Your continuing to ask these questions here with an air of incredulity is either because you don't like the answers for some reason and prefer willful ignorance, or you're too fucking lazy to educate yourself. Read a book, for Christ's sake.

I consider God to be the wisdom behind knowing that those traits would benefit the future Birds.

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Really, dude. This was on the list I just gave you. You're not even trying.

See also: TalkOrigins - Evolution and Philosophy: Is There Progress and Direction in Evolution?

I didn't ask a question in the post you responded to. Did I wrong you in a previous life or somethin? Never expected such a militant defense of evolution from a deeply Religious Hindu.

[popeyespappy]

Conserveafuckingpedia and the Shroud of Turin? You've got to be kidding. Even the RCC makes no claims on the authenticity of the Shroud and the only only real attempts at carbon dating the damn thing said it was a thousand years younger than Jesus.

[Tonus]

Conserveafuckingpedia and the Shroud of Turin? You've got to be kidding. Even the RCC makes no claims on the authenticity of the Shroud and the only only real attempts at carbon dating the damn thing said it was a thousand years younger than Jesus.

Impossible! Carbon dating is supposed to overshoot the numbers by millions of years!

[Angrboda]

Never expected such a militant defense of evolution from a deeply Religious Hindu.

You just like saying the word "deeply" — it has nothing to do with me.

[Chas]

No planning, no guidance, no design.

The evidence is compelling that it is a blind, mindless process.

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Citation required.

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One more time: Citation required. I know of no such evidence.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Shroud_of_Turin

Seriously? What kind of response is that? Comedy?

Three things wrong:

1. That is not a response to anything in the post;
   
2. The Shroud of Turin has been shown to be a medieval artefact;
   
3. Conservapedia is a ridiculous source. Believe nothing from there.
   

[tor]

Thunder you did accept evolution yet? What's the problem over there?

[Rampant.A.I.]

Thunder you did accept evolution yet? What's the problem over there?