Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'?

[Edwardo Piet]

My punctuation is crap. At least I assume it is because I never learnt it properly, I've only learned it through observing books that I read. I certainly know my punctuation is at least more unorthodox than the punctuation in the books I read.
I think my punctuation is perhaps getting better gradually though. Less unnecessary semi-colons, hyphens etc.

[Daystar]

What? How in the name of the Spaghedeity did you write an entire paragraph with only one full stop? (srsly I don't understand what your point is)

Sorry, sometimes I get overly excited

What I was trying to convey is that the average atheist seems to think that because science has figured some things out that it is reasonable and rational to adhere to science itself, while the Bible has figured much of these things out long before science, and because the Bible deals with some things that science can't explain (or wouldn't try to because it doesn't fit within their ability to do so) people who adhere to science are without reason or rational thinking.

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My punctuation is crap. At least I assume it is because I never learnt it properly, I've only learned it through observing books that I read. I certainly know my punctuation is at least more unorthodox than the punctuation in the books I read.
I think my punctuation is perhaps getting better gradually though. Less unnecessary semi-colons, hyphens etc.

My punctuation and grammar suck because in school I was bored. Math sucks too. Pretty much everything they tried to teach me in public school. I used to get notes sent home to my folks saying that I was always reading, but not the books I was supposed to read.

I consider myself to have the intellectual capacity of - lets say - Whinnie The Pooh.

[Edwardo Piet]

I'm more very confused and absent minded like rabbit perhaps.

[CoxRox]

Darwinian, I'm enjoying this debate. You say: 'It's not that it's unappealing, it's just that it makes no sense'. There are many things that are counter intuative. If space or matter didn't have anyone create them, then why can't an intelligent designer have not had a creator? I do understand yours and Evidence's reasonings about this. I just don't get bothered by the so called complexity of such a creator. It is mind boggling to think there might be an intelligence that started all this but I can't ignore the markers (molecules, space, us etc) pointing towards the real possiblitiy that such an Intelligence exists. Why must God 'be complicated beyond belief'? All creatures are limited to what they can understand. If there is a creator then it stands to reason we would not be able to 'understand' how great He is etc. A dog can't understand things about his master and so too with us maybe?? I am not concerning myself with just who this God is. The God of the Bible (OT and NT) can be off putting I agree, hence why I have my doubts about that. I'm not worried which God He is. If He is really there then He knows why I doubt and the onus is on Him to sort that out. I do however believe He would stand for all things good, hence why I try to do the 'right thing' e.g turn the other cheek when someone pisses me off, or help my neighbour when I know they'll try to take advantage. Stuff like that. I've never thought of God as just 'willing stuff into existence'. He's not a conjurer who makes stuff appear out of nothing. Physical stuff, or natural stuff must come from somewhere (I imagine from God Himself). Which brings me to Evidence vs Faith's comments:'God is supernatural therefore he goes completely against the laws of the universe as there is no evidence of him (or anything supernatural)'. Just maybe we have got the wrong idea about supernatural. I believe it is natural only 'different' (I'm struggling for the right word- I'm enjoying a well earned glass of wine having been up since half five and spent all day cleaning etc and it's gone to my head). If He made the laws of the universe then He will hardly go against them. I'll quit now before I get tipsy.

[Tiberius]

while the Bible has figured much of these things out long before science

Please, I'd love to hear of these things. So far I'm not aware of any.

[Edwardo Piet]

Yes and just as Daystar is unaware of the contradictions of the bible I too, Adrian, am unaware of the 'truths' of the bible.

[CoxRox]

Yes and just as Daystar is unaware of the contradictions of the bible I too, Adrian, am unaware of the 'truths' of the bible.

Which is exactly what I wanted to try to convey to him when I invited him to 'chat'.

[Edwardo Piet]

Yes and just as Daystar is unaware of the contradictions of the bible I too, Adrian, am unaware of the 'truths' of the bible.

Which is exactly what I wanted to try to convey to him when I invited him to 'chat'.

Well its certainly a good point and if he joins chat with you I think that would be great.
I'd like to join too but if you really think I'd interfere I'll keep out

[CoxRox]

He's gone I think...

[Edwardo Piet]

If He made the laws of the universe then He will hardly go against them.

I don't understand this comment. If God used the laws of the universe, if he didn't go against the laws of the universe, in order to create the laws of the universe, then the laws of the universe must have existed at the same time he did so he didn't create them and therefore can't be anything other than them. Therefore he is either an exact replica of the laws of the universe or he IS the laws of the universe. Which means he might as well not exist as the laws of the universe are totally natural.