Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: April 19, 2024, 6:36 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Defying Occam's Razor to Explain Random Events
#1
Defying Occam's Razor to Explain Random Events
We often put forth explanations for events that would otherwise seem random, as with the fine-tuning argument. This has given me some problems in thinking about evidence in probabilistic terms, but I think I'm figuring it out.

By "evidence in probabilistic terms", I mean:
An observation supports the hypothesis if the conditional probability of the observation assuming the hypothesis is true is greater than its probability otherwise.

In this thread, a "random event" will be any event that only happened because some event of that type had to happen. For example, Bob had to roll a number 1-6 when he rolled the die. If Bob rolled a 3, it's only because he had to roll something. The 3 was presumably a random event.

The principle I propose:
Whenever some event occurs, we can use that as evidence that the event had an elevated probability under the condition that the event was not random (A1), but we cannot use it as evidence that the event was not random unless we can give an independent justification that the event still would have had an elevated probability under the condition that the event was not random regardless of whether it had occured (A2). Example:

After rolling the 3, Bob might argue, "Because the probability of rolling a 3 would be much higher if the dice were loaded on 3, my roll of 3 supports that hypothesis." In a way, this is right.
The simpler hypothesis is that the dice were loaded, but Bob tacitly tacks on the part about them being loaded on 3. If the dice had an equal probability of being loaded on any number, then Bob's roll of 3 does not support the hypothesis that the dice were loaded. If Bob wants to argue that the dice were loaded, he should argue that the dice, if loaded, would have had an elevated probability of being loaded on 3 (A2). Nonetheless, it is true that if the dice were loaded, then they were probably loaded on 3. (A1)

This can be applied to the fine-tuning argument. Scientists have said that our universe had an extremely low probably of being fit for life if the our universe's physical constants were set randomly. They argue that this is evidence for their non-random scenario in which an supreme being capable of anticipating the future got to decide the physical constants. Certainly A1 is true. If there is such a supreme being, it probably wanted there to be life. This could be one reason why so many gods were depicted having concerns about our going-ons. To argue that there is such a being, however, you need an A2. This is a bit harder.

I think this reasoning could be used to argue that the religions that have had believers are more likely to be true than hypothetical religions that nobody ever believed.
If people occasionally serve as channels for the divine, then the world's religions were not random, and there is an increased probability that the pagan gods really exist. Okay, you think, but we have no reason to think people ever serve as channels of the divine. However, if it's possible (however improbable) that they occasionally do, then the existence of pagans gods has a higher probability of existence than that of the globoprasaurus that I just invented two seconds ago. Wink
Reply
#2
RE: Defying Occam's Razor to Explain Random Events
(May 3, 2014 at 3:48 pm)Coffee Jesus Wrote: I think this reasoning could be used to argue that the religions that have had believers are more likely to be true than hypothetical religions that nobody ever believed.
If people occasionally serve as channels for the divine, then the world's religions were not random, and there is an increased probability that the pagan gods really exist. Okay, you think, but we have no reason to think people ever serve as channels of the divine. However, if it's possible (however improbable) that they occasionally do, then the existence of pagans gods has a higher probability of existence than that of the globoprasaurus that I just invented two seconds ago. Wink

How can you be certain that you invented the globoprasaurus? Maybe you channelled a god who has never been worshipped before and he/she/it wants you to start a religion for him/her/it Big Grin
Badger Badger Badger Badger Where are the snake and mushroom smilies?
Reply
#3
RE: Defying Occam's Razor to Explain Random Events
(May 3, 2014 at 4:09 pm)Confused Ape Wrote:
(May 3, 2014 at 3:48 pm)Coffee Jesus Wrote: I think this reasoning could be used to argue that the religions that have had believers are more likely to be true than hypothetical religions that nobody ever believed.
If people occasionally serve as channels for the divine, then the world's religions were not random, and there is an increased probability that the pagan gods really exist. Okay, you think, but we have no reason to think people ever serve as channels of the divine. However, if it's possible (however improbable) that they occasionally do, then the existence of pagans gods has a higher probability of existence than that of the globoprasaurus that I just invented two seconds ago. Wink

How can you be certain that you invented the globoprasaurus? Maybe you channelled a god who has never been worshipped before and he/she/it wants you to start a religion for him/her/it Big Grin

TBH, I don't think I can argue against that. It would have worked better if I used "witnessing divine intervention" instead of "channeling the divine", but the former makes for messier sentences.
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Presentism and Infinite Chain of Past Events GrandizerII 48 9547 December 13, 2017 at 7:37 am
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  The Paradox of tolerance and current events TaraJo 16 4916 August 19, 2017 at 8:49 pm
Last Post: The Industrial Atheist
  Occam's razor Jehanne 6 1634 April 6, 2017 at 9:55 am
Last Post: Mister Agenda
  To explain why we can define God to affirm his existence! Mystic 119 11374 March 24, 2017 at 11:27 am
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  Minds and Events fdesilva 40 4777 August 19, 2016 at 2:07 am
Last Post: fdesilva
  how to explain church miracles? leodeo 20 4044 October 31, 2013 at 10:46 am
Last Post: Faith No More
  Random quote dawkface 1 1326 September 18, 2010 at 5:40 am
Last Post: krazedkat



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)