Are we the same or different?

[theVOID]

I get that 2 objects existing in seperate places in our universal laws of space time are different. But if "identity" or "consciousness" is personal and subjective and non-material or insubstntial, could someone exist with exactly the same identity or consciousness elsehwere if we could exclude space-time from identity?

Consciousness and the identity of an individual is entirely dependent on the physical topology of the brain. If you could duplicate my physical brain completely at any given moment and place it in another individual you would have someone who has the same conscious identity as I did at that moment. The two copies of 'the identity' would diverge over time as unique experiences dictated the growth of different neural pathways.

You cannot exclude spacetime from identity as identity is the physical topology of the brain in any given space at any given time.

[KichigaiNeko]

God is external from the self and thusly unprovable, but through the holy spirit can be "known" and better defined and seem more real and less intangible. Opinions?

What if what you think is the holy spirit is something else?

Hmmmm Spirit??? as in Alcohol!!!

What ever it is it must be some trippy good shit!

[tackattack]

I like your attitude. Firstly, can I ask you why you believe in the holy spirit. What has caused you to belive this?

I am not try to deny you of your belief, but I am asking this as a basis to discussion.

I feel compelled to go places and say things which are against my conscious nature. Consciously I think I'd be happier living with 4 super-hot pornstar wifes, a ton of money nad eat whatever I want when I want. A clear analysis of myself to include as much subconscious desires as I can dredge up show that certain wants are superflous and not "true desires". When I can neither consciously or subconsciously see a way to achieve theese "true desires" in a step by step plan the holy spirit opens a door through extreme synchonicity and theese compelling to achieve theese "true desires" which lead me to a place of complete emotional contentment, despite my judgements and conscious decisions. I've experienced exhiliration in a clinical sense at concerts and through thrill seeking adventures, drinking, titilation from ticking and extreme sexual pleasure. In those cases I've sought excitement or had actions of others directly relateable to the end result of exhiliration. None of theese compare with "feeling the spirit". I'll say exhiliration would be a tingling or uncontrolable laughter/tears originating usually from the particularly affected area and radiating throughout the body in a progressive fashion. Let me give an example: Great concert, headbangin' music loud and awesome. I hear the music, my head get's moving and my ears get red. I'll get the hair on my neck to stand up and then my arms start moving and the tingling in my ears and neck continue to progress, etc.

Go steal a purse from an old lady, you'll feel guilty. It's not the exact opposite of exhiliration. It doesn't start in one place, it's generally an instintaneous feeling with no percievable originating or end until an action is taken to release it (giving it back, burning it, etc.)

When I experience the "spirit" it's not like a concert or rollercoaster. It's 10 to 20 times more intense and it's not progressive but instintaneous. It has no orinignating observable place. IT doesn't cease till I act deliberately against or in line with it's compelling. It doesn't happen when I consciously or unconsciously want or need it, seemingly out of it's own timeframe.

I've seen the spirit healing of laying on hands in person. I've felt prayers being answered. I've been informed of bad things happening to people I love, but weren't thinking about or known about. I had trusted people in the faith close to me and trusted tell me of experience seeing vision. All in the spiirt and that's a brief, rushed version of why.

[downbeatplumb]

I like your attitude. Firstly, can I ask you why you believe in the holy spirit. What has caused you to belive this?

I am not try to deny you of your belief, but I am asking this as a basis to discussion.

I feel compelled to go places and say things which are against my conscious nature. Consciously I think I'd be happier living with 4 super-hot pornstar wifes, a ton of money nad eat whatever I want when I want. A clear analysis of myself to include as much subconscious desires as I can dredge up show that certain wants are superflous and not "true desires". When I can neither consciously or subconsciously see a way to achieve theese "true desires" in a step by step plan the holy spirit opens a door through extreme synchonicity and theese compelling to achieve theese "true desires" which lead me to a place of complete emotional contentment, despite my judgements and conscious decisions. I've experienced exhiliration in a clinical sense at concerts and through thrill seeking adventures, drinking, titilation from ticking and extreme sexual pleasure. In those cases I've sought excitement or had actions of others directly relateable to the end result of exhiliration. None of theese compare with "feeling the spirit". I'll say exhiliration would be a tingling or uncontrolable laughter/tears originating usually from the particularly affected area and radiating throughout the body in a progressive fashion. Let me give an example: Great concert, headbangin' music loud and awesome. I hear the music, my head get's moving and my ears get red. I'll get the hair on my neck to stand up and then my arms start moving and the tingling in my ears and neck continue to progress, etc.

Go steal a purse from an old lady, you'll feel guilty. It's not the exact opposite of exhiliration. It doesn't start in one place, it's generally an instintaneous feeling with no percievable originating or end until an action is taken to release it (giving it back, burning it, etc.)

When I experience the "spirit" it's not like a concert or rollercoaster. It's 10 to 20 times more intense and it's not progressive but instintaneous. It has no orinignating observable place. IT doesn't cease till I act deliberately against or in line with it's compelling. It doesn't happen when I consciously or unconsciously want or need it, seemingly out of it's own timeframe.

I've seen the spirit healing of laying on hands in person. I've felt prayers being answered. I've been informed of bad things happening to people I love, but weren't thinking about or known about. I had trusted people in the faith close to me and trusted tell me of experience seeing vision. All in the spiirt and that's a brief, rushed version of why.

So God is a mixture of guilt and delusion.

Are you a catholic?

[tackattack]

lol no my God sisters are though. God isn't a mix of anything, God is love. guilt and delusions and exhiliration and voices in our heads are how people misconstrue signs of the spirit. Any sign of the spirit is accompanied by an overwhelming warmth and peace that I can't explain as exhilitration or chemical response. Even at teh most delusional and guilt ridden it's only the spirit at best. The spirit is only a way for us to communicate with God, not attributes of God directly.

[Edwardo Piet]

If God is love then why all the fuss over the specifics like Jesus, Mary and other miracles? These have got nothing to with God if God is simply "Love". Love is an emotion so if you are to say that God is love then you are simply to define God as an emotion and the opposite of hate. As far as I know love wouldn't be possible - no one would be able to feel or express it without brain chemicals. Is God just an emotion that's in the brain that we like to call "Love"?

EvF

[tackattack]

No, you miss my point. I don't have time to get back to this yet. Hopefully I will soon.

[Edwardo Piet]

You said that God" isn't a mix of anything" and that he's "Love" so I wonder what I missed :S

Looking forward to hearing your response.

EvF

[tackattack]

You're assuming the definition of Love that I was referencing was God's Love, not the human emotion of love. God's Love isn't the opposite of hate. God's Love is the purist most unimaginable type of Love. look up 1 Corinthians 13 to see what I mean. We can only understand Love in part, due to our mortality. God's Love comes from an omnipotent source, God. Sure science may call it unexplained, or the the M-theory, superstring, cosmological constant, dark energy, etc (granted I am predisposed to believing that God is the creator of all this). My point is that God and the idea of God are 2 different things, as are God's love and our interpretation of love. So no, I don't feel God could be just an emotion from brain chemicals.

[Edwardo Piet]

You simply said "God is love" and so if that's true then if you look love up in a dictionary then that would apparently= God.

I would have thought that God would be under "God" in the dictionary - the primary definition being a deity that is the supernatural creator and ruler of the universe.

I think "God is Love" in itself doesn't make any sense... if God is just Love then why not instead just say he's "God" instead and explain about him some more, if you're going to have to use your own 'special definition of Love' anyway? (Such as "omnibenevolence"?).

EvF