For football/soccer fans, predictions for the World Cup

[Losty]

Yucky foozeball

[Tobie]

American football should not be called football, considering it is mostly played by carrying the ball in your hands.

[Dystopia]

Plus I'm not trolling! The title of this thread is misleading! (To Muricans)
I got all excited about Football even in the middle of off season. Not cool.

So I put the words 'football' and 'soccer' together in the title to avoid confusion and you are telling me you still were tricked? Damn next time I'll just out 'SOCCER SOCCER SOCCER'

[BlackMason]

He might be more of a team player (although Ronaldo got more assists than Messi last season) but he's not a better player. He has nowhere near as much in his locker as what Ronaldo does. Ronaldo scores headers, free kicks, 40 yard screamers. Messi doesn't really do any of these. Besides, Ronaldo is a supreme athlete. He's built like a fucking action figure. He's stronger, faster, can jump higher. His all round game is much better than Messi's.

I disagree. Messi does score freekicks. His freekicks are a lot more skillful and therefore more impressive than Ronaldo's. Ronaldo relies on brute power for his. Messi scored an amazing freekick this world cup against Nigeria I think. I also remember a very sumptuous freekick in a classico that ended in a high scoring draw. Ronaldo is faster but negligibly so; Messi ain't no slow coach. His acceleration is better than Ronaldo's by the way which is a more effective tool for leaving men eating dust. On your point of Ronaldo being stronger, in what sense do you mean? When I watch soccer it is Messi who is less likely to dive. He's more resilient on his feet. He takes tackles better than Ronaldo.

A skill that Messi has that's been overlooked here is his remarkable close ball control. It's like the ball is glued to his feet. When it come to attacking, Messi is more likely to retain possession of the ball compared to Ronaldo.

Another point, you put Ronaldo in any other team in the world and he'll still score 40 goals a season. You can't say the same for Messi. Again, Barca are completely built around him.

That is highly debatable. Both Messi and Ronaldo are players that command that the tactics of any team have them featuring in the starring role. Now Messi is a one club player. Why should that be a point lost on his part? To assert/imply that Messi can't score as prolifically in another team is a bit of an argument from ignorance.

[Napoléon]

I disagree. Messi does score freekicks. His freekicks are a lot more skillful and therefore more impressive than Ronaldo's. Ronaldo relies on brute power for his. Messi scored an amazing freekick this world cup against Nigeria I think. I also remember a very sumptuous freekick in a classico that ended in a high scoring draw.

More skillful? How do you work that one? Just because Ronaldo uses power he's automatically less skillful? I don't see the logic here. Ronaldo is famed for his ability to hit a ball in a certain way. I can't remember anyone talking about how Messi takes a free kick, yet people talk about how Ronaldo hits the ball right on the valve. He was the first person to start doing this and it has been copied by several other footballers. I can also remember a bunch of awesome Ronaldo free kicks. I'm not saying Messi doesn't score free kicks, I'm saying Ronaldo is more effective. He can score from much further out than Messi too. Again, when was the last time Messi scored from 30+ yards.

Ronaldo is faster but negligibly so; Messi ain't no slow coach. His acceleration is better than Ronaldo's by the way which is a more effective tool for leaving men eating dust.

Meh, maybe. Over 100 meters Ronaldo would be winning every time. I'd argue the instances of having to 'leave a man for dust' are far fewer than having to run past someone at full speed.

On your point of Ronaldo being stronger, in what sense do you mean? When I watch soccer it is Messi who is less likely to dive. He's more resilient on his feet. He takes tackles better than Ronaldo.

Ofcourse he's stronger. He's an out and out beast. What sense do I mean? I mean in the sense that he's stronger, he can knock other people off the ball, hold them off more, jump and power into headers. Messi has great balance and a smaller frame, which allows him to skip over tackles and such, but rarely do you see him out strengthening someone who is side by side with him. Also people go on like Messi never dives either, which pisses me off. Like he's some beacon of fair play. He's just as much a cunt at times as what Ronaldo is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6vIBWYy-4Y

A skill that Messi has that's been overlooked here is his remarkable close ball control. It's like the ball is glued to his feet. When it come to attacking, Messi is more likely to retain possession of the ball compared to Ronaldo.

Ronaldo also scores 100 times more headers than Messi ever does. Ronaldo is also capable of smashing the ball from 40 yards into the top corner. I wouldn't underestimate Ronaldo's dribbling either. All in all, Ronaldo is the more complete, well rounded player. Messi is the best dribbler in the world no doubt, but in terms of the best player? The best all round footballer? Ronaldo.

That is highly debatable. Both Messi and Ronaldo are players that command that the tactics of any team have them featuring in the starring role. Now Messi is a one club player. Why should that be a point lost on his part? To assert/imply that Messi can't score as prolifically in another team is a bit of an argument from ignorance.

It's not really. It's pretty obvious he wouldn't score as many in another team. He wouldn't have Xavi and Iniesta providing him assist after assist. I think anyone with a half decent footballing brain would accept that Messi, anywhere other than Barca, wouldn't score the amount or kinds of goals he currently does. It's not an argument from ignorance, because you can see the kind of attributes he has and how much he relies on his team mates. Ronaldo doesn't rely on anyone but himself. Ronaldo has proven himself in another (much more physically demanding might I add) league. That's not necessarily a -1 for Messi, but it is a definite +1 for Ronaldo.


A lot of this is preference though. Stats wise you could make arguments for either player. But I think it's undeniable that Ronaldo's all round game makes him the more complete player. I'd say he's the better player because of that.

[LastPoet]

Football skills aside, Ronaldo does work his body like a good athlete should. Even when he's off the clock, he is training. One has to value his determination.

[Dystopia]

Football skills aside, Ronaldo does work his body like a good athlete should. Even when he's off the clock, he is training. One has to value his determination.

The first player to arrive at training and the last to leave it, I think he's a good role model for portuguese kids, putting aside the fact he is a redneck but he has work ethics and he is healthy

[LastPoet]

It is too bad so many good portuguese researchers don't earn nearly as much as he does. That is an offense to all that we are, that people that work hard in science for all that we have and will have, to earn a penny compared to a jock, that just happens to be good at a game. I can value Ronaldo for an athlete, but I value circus clowns more.

[Dystopia]

It is too bad so many good portuguese researchers don't earn nearly as much as he does. That is an offense to all that we are, that people that work hard in science for all that we have and will have, to earn a penny compared to a jock, that just happens to be good at a game. I can value Ronaldo for an athlete, but I value circus clowns more.

I agree, but then again, sports teams are private entities, they can pay whatever they want as long as they make profit and don't bankrupt, scientists may not earn that much because maybe the profit is not that high or sometimes it can even be non profit research. The thing is the people are happy to watch football, it's entertaining so they always turn the TV or pay tickets, sports is great for fun, but not many are interested in paying for science research since our people sometimes lack basic culture.

[BlackMason]

More skillful? How do you work that one? Just because Ronaldo uses power he's automatically less skillful? I don't see the logic here. Ronaldo is famed for his ability to hit a ball in a certain way. I can't remember anyone talking about how Messi takes a free kick, yet people talk about how Ronaldo hits the ball right on the valve. He was the first person to start doing this and it has been copied by several other footballers. I can also remember a bunch of awesome Ronaldo free kicks. I'm not saying Messi doesn't score free kicks, I'm saying Ronaldo is more effective. He can score from much further out than Messi too. Again, when was the last time Messi scored from 30+ yards.

When weilding an axe an untrained wood cutter goes for power. A skilled cutter can achieve more with less. For me I'd prefer a curved trajectory because it is more deceiving. Think of the greats... Roberto Carlos, David Beckham.

Being famed for something doesn't mean you are particularly skilled at it. Could it be that Messi's set pieces are conventional and Ronaldo's being unorthodox attract more attention? He is very dramatic with his stance and measuring.

Meh, maybe. Over 100 meters Ronaldo would be winning every time. I'd argue the instances of having to 'leave a man for dust' are far fewer than having to run past someone at full speed.

Ronaldo does not run 100 meters in a match flat out. This point is irrelevant. In soccer the players run in short bursts rarely reaching full speed. Acceleration on the other hand is a frequently used attribute.

Ofcourse he's stronger. He's an out and out beast. What sense do I mean? I mean in the sense that he's stronger, he can knock other people off the ball, hold them off more, jump and power into headers. Messi has great balance and a smaller frame, which allows him to skip over tackles and such, but rarely do you see him out strengthening someone who is side by side with him. Also people go on like Messi never dives either, which pisses me off. Like he's some beacon of fair play. He's just as much a cunt at times as what Ronaldo is.

Yes, I concede this point. I disagree with the Messi diving though. Messi has demonstrated throughout his career that he is a player that prefers to be on his feet. Fetching a video with Messi diving is inadmissible as evidence. Those dives are taken completely out of context. For example there is no indication of time in the video. The occurances of the dives could be few and far between, but this is a sample taken over a long period of time. This creates the illusion of Messi being a frequent offender. This is simply not true. I'd go as far as saying that Messi almost goes down as a last resort. Ronaldo goes down intentionally

Ronaldo also scores 100 times more headers than Messi ever does. Ronaldo is also capable of smashing the ball from 40 yards into the top corner. I wouldn't underestimate Ronaldo's dribbling either. All in all, Ronaldo is the more complete, well rounded player. Messi is the best dribbler in the world no doubt, but in terms of the best player? The best all round footballer? Ronaldo.

There's a reason I didn't challenge you on heading and long range shots. Ronaldo is by far the better man here. Since you've found the need to bring this up again, I'll say a few words on it. Let's not make the mistake of thinking something is likely simply because it is possible. When was the last time Ronaldo scored a goal like he did against Porto in the champions league campaign of 2009?

It's not really. It's pretty obvious he wouldn't score as many in another team. He wouldn't have Xavi and Iniesta providing him assist after assist. I think anyone with a half decent footballing brain would accept that Messi, anywhere other than Barca, wouldn't score the amount or kinds of goals he currently does. It's not an argument from ignorance, because you can see the kind of attributes he has and how much he relies on his team mates. Ronaldo doesn't rely on anyone but himself. Ronaldo has proven himself in another (much more physically demanding might I add) league. That's not necessarily a -1 for Messi, but it is a definite +1 for Ronaldo.

I don't want to be pedantic but it is an argument from ignorance. You are not relying on actual information but assumed. Instead you are leaning on inductive reasoning. I call even on your point of Messi relying on his team mates more. Messi has scored countless individual, sensational goals. At the peak of his powers he can take on 5 men and will a goal out of thin air. He even did this in a classico WITH Ronaldo on the same field. Messi also destroyed a whole team in Maradona fashion further fuelling comparisons with the Argentina legend.

I agree with your final statement in this paragraph.

A lot of this is preference though. Stats wise you could make arguments for either player. But I think it's undeniable that Ronaldo's all round game makes him the more complete player. I'd say he's the better player because of that.

Ronaldo certainly is the more complete player. He comes fully loaded with all sorts of skills for the game. But I define best as who can get you the win, who can show up in the big matches and who is more reliable. While valid, I criticise your definition simply because it is primarily theoretical. Messi is the best.

Ps, I'm too lazy to check for spelling errors and gramar. It's ten minutes into Monday on my side of the world.

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...the fact he is a redneck...

Bull-fucking-shit!