For football/soccer fans, predictions for the World Cup

[Fidel_Castronaut]

It is too bad so many good portuguese researchers don't earn nearly as much as he does. That is an offense to all that we are, that people that work hard in science for all that we have and will have, to earn a penny compared to a jock, that just happens to be good at a game. I can value Ronaldo for an athlete, but I value circus clowns more.

Yup. My fiancé earns pittance as a microbiologist, even though it's her research and that of her colleagues which is giving us a chance of not dying out in a hundred years or so from anti-biotoic resistant bacteria.

But I guess people don't care about that kind of thing. GOOOAL!

[jesus_wept]

American football is crap

The only worse sport is baseball.

And yes I have been to America and watched a New York Yankees and a Giants game and neither of them compared to the excitement and skill of even a non-league football game.

[Napoléon]

[BlackMason]

Roberto Carlos? ROBERTO CARLOS? The guy who used to have the longest run up in free kicking history? Who was known for simply smacking the ball as hard as he could? The man who they nicknamed "The Rocket"? You use him to justify less powerful and more skillful free kicks? More with less? Really?

You can be skillful and have power. Roberto Carlos was one of those guys, but you using him as an example of someone like you suggest in your analogy? Did you ever watch him take a free kick?

I see how my reference to Roberto is a bit of a foot in mouth incident. He does use a lot of power. However I was referencing his ability to make the ball curve ridiculously. This is what I haven't seen Cristiano do. Cristiano dips the ball. In his free kicks the ball often bounces just before the keeper. This is due to that dip I'm referring to.

Again, when was the last time Messi scored from 40 yards out? Never. At least Beckham, Ronaldo and Carlos could. You say you prefer a curved trajectory because it's more deceiving? How on Earth do you ever work out Messi's free kicks as being more deceiving than Ronaldo's? Ronaldo's are the ultimate deceiving free kick. He hits it in such a way that the flight of the ball can change drastically. Many goalkeepers would attest to that fact. Anyone who has ever played with today's balls knows that smashing a ball in a certain way can have pretty hilarious variances in the ball flight.

Ronaldo's trajectory abilities seem to be almost exclusively of the vertical type.

I'll redirect you to that article I quoted earlier. Ronaldo is just as likely as Messi to get you a win in big games.

I look at it like this. Why do people say Muhammad Ali was the best/greatest of all time?
1: Because he told everyone so
2: He was one of the most well rounded boxers ever to live. He could do everything. Everything.

Now, for me, Messi is kinda like Mike Tyson (stay with me here). He's incredibly efficient at what he does. If not the best in that particular aspect. Mike Tyson in that he gets KO's. Messi in that he's the best dribbler and finisher out there. However, Mike Tyson (unless you listen to imbeciles) doesn't go down as 'the best'. He goes down as one of the best maybe, but when people talk about who is the best? It's the guy who can do it all. Ali with great chin, stamina, skill, power, speed, intelligence. Ronaldo with his skill, long shots, heading, finishing, passing. Both of these guys are more well rounded, more complete in what they do.

For this reason, theoretical or whatever it may be (I think when you're talking about who is 'the best' it can only ever be theoretical), I'd say Ronaldo is the better player. The thing is, you try and look at it in terms of something else, like say, record. Then Muhammad Ali would never have gone down as the greatest. Does he have the best boxing record ever? No. Does Ronaldo have the best record in terms of titles, and scoring? Ofcourse not. My point is, I'd rather judge it on the aspects I'm describing, than the aspects you're describing.



Yeah... long post... I know.

Actually I'm a bit of a boxing fan. I hate Ali because I think he is an example of a villain that succeeded and the world seems oblivious to that. I watched a documentary on the thriller in Manila. It changed my view of Ali.

When it comes to this type of discussion, who the greatest are, I think accolades are a very important factor. They are all the necessary qualities of sport condensed into one shiny belt, cup or statue. I guess I'm an imbecile because I think Tyson is the goat. Not many people were able to unify the IBF, WBA and WBC titles. He did this at the age of 21! Tyson dominated. Just look at Busta Douglas fight, the McNeeley fight and even the Lou Savarese. These are just a few I'm picking off the top of my head.

More to the point: Messi has 4 Ballon d'Ors that were achieved in legendary succession. Jordan's double three-peat championship rings are an ode by themselves to just how completely unquestionable his status as goat is.

We have different criteria for how we determine the best players. I think we should just leave it at that.

[Mystical]

Okay guys. I've done some multicultural studies and from what I can ascertain : Rugby is the suicidal version of NFL FOOTBALL, and soccer is soccer.

I'm going to conclude that Rugby is more hardcore than NFL FOOTBALL which is more hardcore than Soccer, which is only barely more hardcore than butterfly catching.

Well, I feel betters.

[Napoléon]

Actually I'm a bit of a boxing fan. I hate Ali because I think he is an example of a villain that succeeded and the world seems oblivious to that. I watched a documentary on the thriller in Manila. It changed my view of Ali.

I'm not a fan of Ali, I personally don't think he was 'the greatest'. In the mainstream most people think of him as a hero or whatever but in reality he was a very nasty man. All of his episodes with Joe Frazier were just a case of him being a total douche. He continually called him an Uncle Tom, a gorilla, all sorts. Muhammad Ali was not a nice guy.

When it comes to this type of discussion, who the greatest are, I think accolades are a very important factor. They are all the necessary qualities of sport condensed into one shiny belt, cup or statue.

They are a factor, but it depends really IMHO on how important they are.

I guess I'm an imbecile because I think Tyson is the goat.

Heh, well, I don't want to call you an idiot but...

Not many people were able to unify the IBF, WBA and WBC titles. He did this at the age of 21! Tyson dominated. Just look at Busta Douglas fight, the McNeeley fight and even the Lou Savarese. These are just a few I'm picking off the top of my head.

Look at the Buster Douglas fight? You do know he got knocked out that fight right? By a nobody? When he was supposedly in his prime? Lou Savarese and McNeeley were not exactly world championship fighters either. In truth Tyson never really fought anyone all that great, people massively overestimate how good he was. He ducked the competition and was frankly a disgusting human being. You think Ali was bad? Tyson was a woman beating rapist. He was a complete disgrace to the sport when he bit Evander's ear, not once but twice. If he was truly the best he would have had a much better legacy than what he left, there's plenty of fighters who have better legacies.

More to the point: Messi has 4 Ballon d'Ors that were achieved in legendary succession. Jordan's double three-peat championship rings are an ode by themselves to just how completely unquestionable his status as goat is.

The Ballon d'Ors aren't really comparable to championship rings seen as you get voted to win a Ballon d'Or. I mean, for the last two years Franck Ribery has been one of the most voted for players, he isn't even the best player on Bayern Munich let alone in the world. I honestly couldn't give two fucks about the Ballon d'Or.

We have different criteria for how we determine the best players. I think we should just leave it at that.

Yep, we should argue about boxing instead.

[Rayaan]

[BlackMason]

Look at the Buster Douglas fight? You do know he got knocked out that fight right? By a nobody? When he was supposedly in his prime? Lou Savarese and McNeeley were not exactly world championship fighters either. In truth Tyson never really fought anyone all that great, people massively overestimate how good he was. He ducked the competition and was frankly a disgusting human being. You think Ali was bad? Tyson was a woman beating rapist. He was a complete disgrace to the sport when he bit Evander's ear, not once but twice. If he was truly the best he would have had a much better legacy than what he left, there's plenty of fighters who have better legacies.

Clearly this memory thing doesn't work well for me when I need it to. I meant Trevor Berbick not Buster Douglas. I was trying to refer to the fight where Tyson was a challenger when he was 20. However, Buster Douglas was not exactly a nobody. He was lazy but he had a lot of natural talent. His jabs were not exactly what you'd expect from a nobody.

It's a popular thing for people to rush to mention that Tyson bit Holyfield's ear. The question is how many people actually know the full story? Not many. When dealing with reputations I admit that it doesn't matter who knows the full story. A stained rep is a stained rep. Tyson bit Holyfield's ear because Holyfield was cheating. He was headbutting Tyson throughout the match. The ref didn't see this and Tyson acted out of frustration. For me only woman beating rapist sticks. But this too can be "challenged". I say Tyson paid for his sins. He did the time for his crime. He apologised to society. Ali on the other hand got away. He could sell his name for $10 million while Joe Frazier was dead broke living in the top of the gym he trained for the thriller in Manila.

The Ballon d'Ors aren't really comparable to championship rings seen as you get voted to win a Ballon d'Or. I mean, for the last two years Franck Ribery has been one of the most voted for players, he isn't even the best player on Bayern Munich let alone in the world. I honestly couldn't give two fucks about the Ballon d'Or.

You do have a point. I would like to add that the Ballon d'Or includes coaches, players and journalists in their voting process. It has a broader base in terms of sample size. Soccer has 11 players on the pitch. It therefore stands to reason that it is more difficult to co-ordinate that number of men. What I mean is that the efforts of one player are more diluted. Basketball is a 5 man sport. A single man's performance is a lot more realisable than in soccer. I guess it was a bad move on my part to mention championships as you noted.

[Losty]

[Napoléon]

Clearly this memory thing doesn't work well for me when I need it to. I meant Trevor Berbick not Buster Douglas. I was trying to refer to the fight where Tyson was a challenger when he was 20. However, Buster Douglas was not exactly a nobody. He was lazy but he had a lot of natural talent. His jabs were not exactly what you'd expect from a nobody.

Oh c'mon. Buster Douglas was a nobody compared to Tyson at the time. The only wins he had on his rec of note were McCall and Berbick, McCall who wasn't ever as good as people reckoned and Berbick who was on the back end of his career. The Mirage casino in Vegas had odds of Douglas winning against Tyson at 42-1! That tells you something. Either Tyson was massively over-rated, or Douglas was massively under-rated. I'm inclined to think it was perhaps a bit of both.

It's a popular thing for people to rush to mention that Tyson bit Holyfield's ear. The question is how many people actually know the full story? Not many. When dealing with reputations I admit that it doesn't matter who knows the full story. A stained rep is a stained rep. Tyson bit Holyfield's ear because Holyfield was cheating. He was headbutting Tyson throughout the match. The ref didn't see this and Tyson acted out of frustration.

Ugh, I just knew you were going to say this, as though it's an excuse for ripping someone's ear off.

For me only woman beating rapist sticks. But this too can be "challenged". I say Tyson paid for his sins. He did the time for his crime. He apologised to society. Ali on the other hand got away. He could sell his name for $10 million while Joe Frazier was dead broke living in the top of the gym he trained for the thriller in Manila.

Oh c'mon, Ali was a nasty man but he never beat women or bit people. It's not even comparable, Tyson was an animal. Even after he came out of prison, he wasn't exactly a likeable character. All throughout his career he ducked Lennox Lewis and then does interviews saying he'll eat his children, calling boxers faggots. Guy was a joke.

What the what? Are we now talking about boxing?

What good's a thread if you can't derail it?

I will admit that Ronaldo is sexier than Messi, but Messi plays for Argentina

Fuck Argentina, they revel in terrorism and celebrate the deaths of those living in the Falklands, then have the nerve to try and make a political point with their national football team. The country is run by a maniacal fucking warmonger.