Sexual Orientation

[Ben Davis]

Can sexual orientation be changed? Do certain sexual behaviors classified as psychiatritric disorders, such as pedophilia, fall under sexual orientation? Why or why not?

You've got some conflation of definitions here. Sexuality breaks down like this:

1. Sexual Orientation: the things which consciously or subconsciously trigger sexual desires or responses

2. Sexual Behaviour: the actions you choose to take (or not to take) in response to your orientation

3. Sexual Labelling:
a. broad social identification in response to 'typifying' aspects of Orientation and Behaviour
b. self-identification in response to your Orientation, Behaviour and social identification


So which parts are you talking about changing here? If you mean Orientation, Alice's response is pretty much on the button; you've gotta smash something. If you're talking about Behaviour, there's a large aspect which is self-policed although, once again, Alice's suggestions would work. On the subject of labelling, that's mainly down to social convention: change the conventions and you change the labels.

[FlyingNarwhal]

I learned about sex when I was 8, was playing with myself at 9, and I knew I wanted to have sex at that age as well because I liked how I could make myself feel. I was sexually explorative at a much younger age too, even though I didn't know what sex was. If an older woman had tried to have had sex with me at 9, I would have gladly obliged, and I highly doubt I would have regretted that decision. By my own thoughts at that age I can't say that pedophilia is wrong across the board, because I wanted to have sex at that age.

[Baqal]

@Little lunch
-Perhaps it would be easier Baqal if you say what you think is right about it. :-)
I think it is okay because relationships should be based on people who form it, and not what society has to say about them. If a child sincerely loves an adult, and if this adult sincerely loves that child, I do not see anything wrong. But, if an adult forces a child into sexual intercourse or vice versa, then I, of course, say "no" to that.

@A Theist
-There's plenty wrong with Pedophilia. Escpecially when dirty old men force themselves on young children for sexual gratification. That's why pedophiles are sent to prison.
As I've said earlier, pedophilia does not necessarily have to apply to rape scenarios. All rapists, regardless of their sexuality, are sent to prison.

[Nine]

Way I see it is that you could change just about anything you want about a person if you are determined enough.

[Ben Davis]

I think it is okay because relationships should be based on people who form it, and not what society has to say about them. If a child sincerely loves an adult, and if this adult sincerely loves that child, I do not see anything wrong. But, if an adult forces a child into sexual intercourse or vice versa, then I, of course, say "no" to that...

As I've said earlier, pedophilia does not necessarily have to apply to rape scenarios. All rapists, regardless of their sexuality, are sent to prison.

The problem is that young people ~<16 have mostly not developed intellectually enough or gained enough experience to be able to make well-informed choices in sexual matters. That's why Statutory Rape exists, to protect those who might give their consent when they're unknowingly vulnerable.

Personally, I was 'ready' quite early or at least, I thought I was. Actually, I was just horny and acting on it. I now appreciate that I wouldn't have been ready to care for a child or provide for & raise him/her properly. In fact, I would have been woefully inadequate. I still lost my virginity at a young age. I knew better, you see. In reality, I (or the children that never were) was just lucky.

[KUSA]

Sexual orientation and behavior is fine until it harms someone. That's basically where the line is drawn.

[Mudhammam]

@Pickup_shonuff
-Alice, what's wrong with it? That's just a joke, right?
So, what is wrong with it? You can say "wrong" to anything that is a minority, considered taboo in the community you live in or socially unusual.

Well, I guess I can't really imagine a scenario in which an adult who takes advantage of a child for the purposes of exploiting them sexually is going to have any positive effects on the well-being of said child. As Ben pointed out, a child at the age of nine can think they're ready for a lot of things... but they actually don't know what they want because they're nine years old.

I guess I must ask: are you okay with a nine-year-old having sex with an adult if the child pleads and pleads to do it? Say, your daughter?

[Violet]

Alice, what's wrong with it? That's just a joke, right?

No. What's wrong with pedophilia, that being defined as a sexual attraction to children and/or those considerably younger than oneself (usually an attraction to innocence and the positive outlook of youth in the latter, but it's not like you care about this definition at all, so we'll just talk about kids, yeah...)?

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Perhaps it would be easier Baqal if you say what you think is right about it. :-)

This salad is a great salad because it has lettuce, tomatoes, carrots, and pickled human heads diced up into it.

To do so is flawed, Little Lunch.

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There's plenty wrong with Pedophilia. Escpecially when dirty old men force themselves on young children for sexual gratification. That's why pedophiles are sent to prison.

That would be rape, not pedophilia. Pedophilia may have been a part of why they ultimately opted to rape a person (desire and all that jazz), but pedophilia is no more rape than is heterosexuality.

[Jenny A]

I learned about sex when I was 8, was playing with myself at 9, and I knew I wanted to have sex at that age as well because I liked how I could make myself feel. I was sexually explorative at a much younger age too, even though I didn't know what sex was. If an older woman had tried to have had sex with me at 9, I would have gladly obliged, and I highly doubt I would have regretted that decision. By my own thoughts at that age I can't say that pedophilia is wrong across the board, because I wanted to have sex at that age.

You at 8 or 9and another 8 or 9 year-old and I wouldn't say boo provided it was consensual--though I think that that's rare, and shouldn't be encouraged.

But an adult and a 8 or 9 year? No way. I don't think given the power difference, that a 8 or 9 year old could really consent. And I don't really think a child is in a position to really understand the possible consequences of sex. You may have been ready, but in order to protect other children, I'd say no.

[Violet]

So which parts are you talking about changing here? If you mean Orientation, Alice's response is pretty much on the button; you've gotta smash something. If you're talking about Behaviour, there's a large aspect which is self-policed although, once again, Alice's suggestions would work. On the subject of labelling, that's mainly down to social convention: change the conventions and you change the labels.

I thought we were talking about actively modifying someone's sexuality

Oh well XD That one guy had a pretty good idea that I'd spaced with 'pills', which don't require surgery, but are intended for the same general effect

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Way I see it is that you could change just about anything you want about a person if you are determined enough.

And advanced enough.

"Depends on the torture... depends on the man."

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The problem is that young people ~<16 have mostly not developed intellectually enough or gained enough experience to be able to make well-informed choices in sexual matters. That's why Statutory Rape exists, to protect those who might give their consent when they're unknowingly vulnerable.

I find that this applies to adults just as readily. Humankind is a learning being, and their lives shape that learning.

If you wish for them to make "well informed" choices in sexual matters, then it is your duty to inform them as early as possible in their lives.

I think you'll find that by 10, kids are starting to get pretty damn smart.

Personally, I was 'ready' quite early or at least, I thought I was. Actually, I was just horny and acting on it. I now appreciate that I wouldn't have been ready to care for a child or provide for & raise him/her properly. In fact, I would have been woefully inadequate. I still lost my virginity at a young age. I knew better, you see. In reality, I (or the children that never were) was just lucky.

That's what your parents, their grandparents, are for, silly. It's dangerous for humans to go babymaking young... but luckily: medical science is here to catch them now.

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Sexual orientation and behavior is fine until it harms someone. That's basically where the line is drawn.

All about hurt, here. If they're happy, then I'm happy with them... if one person is lording over the other in a nonconsensual and in particular: not enjoyed manner...

Then I have problem. Hedonism, man.

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Well, I guess I can't really imagine a scenario in which an adult who takes advantage of a child for the purposes of exploiting them sexually is going to have any positive effects on the well-being of said child.

And how about an adult who wishes to love that person, to hold them close and teach them all of what they know of the world...

I find that some of my best learning is through practice and exploration. There are advantages to these things.

As Ben pointed out, a child at the age of nine can think they're ready for a lot of things... but they actually don't know what they want because they're nine years old.

A human at age of fifty can believe themselves the manifest of their own destiny... but only are they manifest a fool.

Because... they're human.

I guess I must ask: are you okay with a nine-year-old having sex with an adult if the child pleads and pleads to do it? Say, your daughter?

Yes. Absolutely... though if my daughter were so inclined, I'd prefer it be with me or at least someone I know and trust, who will be as gentle and loving with her as she deserves.

A stranger isn't as trusted, and I would be very hard to convince that I not be around for her safety.

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You at 8 or 9and another 8 or 9 year-old and I wouldn't say boo provided it was consensual--though I think that that's rare, and shouldn't be encouraged.

Consensual sex with people of your own age... not encouraged? Odd.

But an adult and a 8 or 9 year? No way. I don't think given the power difference, that a 8 or 9 year old could really consent. And I don't really think a child is in a position to really understand the possible consequences of sex. You may have been ready, but in order to protect other children, I'd say no.

So... given the 'power difference'... should my relationship with a physically disabled adult be thrown out... shall they not find an outreach for the love they crave? Can they 'really consent', or can they just 'sort of consent', or can they 'not consent' even if the only thing they are speaking is their consent?

The consequences of every action... cause reactions so far-reaching that no man might know their heading. I don't think that an 8 or 9 year old (though perhaps the person is just blissfully stupid, who knows) is incapable of understanding the immediate potential consequences of one subject that, should an adult be on hand at the happenstance, they are dutybound to explain.

Or, perhaps your distrust of the human race has chained the freedoms of man in your mind.