How I got Out of Religion.

[Samson]

tack, again, I want to reply back..especially to the 1st paragraph you wrote....sorry for the delayed responses....

[tackattack]

np philosophy, beliefs and good discussion have no time limit.

[Samson]

The nicene creed is still the current doctrine's of Christianity. You are assuming it's stated somewhere how we should translate the bible. It was put out there to help non-believers define what Christianity should be defined as. You asserted that I "would defiantly have to take many of the passages throughout the Bible Literally" which is obviously not true and is subjective, by the definition of Christianity.

People falsly compare the Bible and Qur'an all the time. Yes they're both books, but that missing the meaning of what they are. A better comparison to the Qur'an would be Jesus and the disciples to Mohamed. That would infer that the Qur'an would be more akin to a book written from a discible from the bible. I say this because the Qur'an and Jesus are both the eternal revelation of God. Mohammed and the disciples were the messengers of the ideology. Hadith, Tarikh, Sira and Tafsir compared to the Bible are the history and teachings of the messengers.

No if you believed in the holy spirit you wouldn't have a correct translation. You may think it a cop out because you're not trying to see my perspective. I have something you don't and that gives me a biased perspective. You have nothing that I don't have except perhaps a grudge, yet you can't escape your bias. You either believe in things outside of the tangible or you don't, that's all it boils down to.

IN BOLD:

Again, just another book (AKA) opinionated material trying to define. Just ask your local Mormon and Jehovah Witness how well their little black and blue books define their "Truth"...

And I'm sorry, but Christianity in a whole is one big subjective mass of opinions, but they seem to agree on a few things within the Bible, which of course is what makes them a "Christian" and not a Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Wiccan, etc. etc.

I haven't found too many people calling themselves Christians that disagreed with:
John 14:6Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Of course every Christian is going to "View" or "Translate" the Bible in their own opinion, but there is still that core that defines them as a Christian in comparison to the 1000+ beliefs we have today and back when.


IN RED:

Considering half my family is Muslim, I can tell you now, that is truly reaching....

Just as the Christian bible and Qur'an, did nothing more than rape the Gnostics and Judean text to benefit their own opinions. One just so happened to put Jesus on a throne...

I can believe there was a "Man" that was Jesus from back then, but no more, no less..Just as I do a Mohammad.


IN BLUE:

I have no grudge against people who believe, only the ones that tell me their opinions are the truth and if I don't believe their biased opinions, then I will be in "HELL"!!!!!!.....

I'm happy that you don't view hell as some torture chamber as told within the "Christian/Qur'an" bible, but it still does not take away from the fact that you are believing in something that has no evidence other than your opinions...Regardless of what other texts you read to "Help" you understand the Bible... (Amazon.com has plenty more books from authors that can help you with the Bible as well..)...

Just so you know for future reference...When I have my rants on this forum, it is to the majority that view the Bible as 100% factual material and base their every living existence on it. I don't know where you are from, but here in the U.S. (Southern section) the majority believes that way and have no problem with going "Holy-Roller" on someone who questions them....

[Minimalist]

Tack's position can be basically summarized as "my god is real but all the others are false."


Which is pretty much true of all religious bullshit from the beginning of time.

[Samson]

Tack's position can be basically summarized as "my god is real but all the others are false."


Which is pretty much true of all religious bullshit from the beginning of time.

Sums it up a bit..

[tackattack]

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The nicene creed is still the current doctrine's of Christianity. You are assuming it's stated somewhere how we should translate the bible. It was put out there to help non-believers define what Christianity should be defined as. You asserted that I "would defiantly have to take many of the passages throughout the Bible Literally" which is obviously not true and is subjective, by the definition of Christianity.

People falsly compare the Bible and Qur'an all the time. Yes they're both books, but that missing the meaning of what they are. A better comparison to the Qur'an would be Jesus and the disciples to Mohamed. That would infer that the Qur'an would be more akin to a book written from a discible from the bible. I say this because the Qur'an and Jesus are both the eternal revelation of God. Mohammed and the disciples were the messengers of the ideology. Hadith, Tarikh, Sira and Tafsir compared to the Bible are the history and teachings of the messengers.

No if you only believed in the holy spirit you wouldn't have a correct translation. You may think it a cop out because you're not trying to see my perspective. I have something you don't and that gives me a biased perspective. You have nothing that I don't have except perhaps a grudge, yet you can't escape your bias. You either believe in things outside of the tangible or you don't, that's all it boils down to.

---

---

IN BOLD:

Again, just another book (AKA) opinionated material trying to define. Just ask your local Mormon and Jehovah Witness how well their little black and blue books define their "Truth"...

And I'm sorry, but Christianity in a whole is one big subjective mass of opinions, but they seem to agree on a few things within the Bible, which of course is what makes them a "Christian" and not a Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Wiccan, etc. etc.

I haven't found too many people calling themselves Christians that disagreed with:
John 14:6Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Of course every Christian is going to "View" or "Translate" the Bible in their own opinion, but there is still that core that defines them as a Christian in comparison to the 1000+ beliefs we have today and back when.

---

I agree with all of that. Christianity is a big mass of subjective perspectives that agree on a few core principles. Religion should be subjective and personal. Atheists attempt to try and turn religion into science, and the intangible just doens't work that way, just look at degrees of freedom in the sciences.

---

IN RED:

Considering half my family is Muslim, I can tell you now, that is truly reaching....

Just as the Christian bible and Qur'an, did nothing more than rape the Gnostics and Judean text to benefit their own opinions. One just so happened to put Jesus on a throne...

I can believe there was a "Man" that was Jesus from back then, but no more, no less..Just as I do a Mohammad.

---

Ok so let's look at it from a Muslim perspective. Muslims believe that the Qur'an is the inerrant word of God. The prophet Mohammad is the last and best prophet in giving this work of God's word to us. The Hadiths and Sira speak predominantly about Mohammad's lifestyle. Recognize Christians and revere Jesus (only as a prophet not the last best thing). Both Jesus and Muhammad were Ismah, or sinless.All that on point?
Christian perspective- Jesus is the inerrant word of God. The disciples of Jesus wrote down the philosophies, words and teaching of Jesus. The Bible speaks very little of Jesus' lifestyle. The bible does speak of false prophets to come.
So both religions revere Jesus. Christianity follows the Bible, which teaches that Jesus is the son of God. The Qur'an is merely a book whose authenticity rests solely on the shoulders of one finite man. It is no match against Jesus, revered by Muslims and Christians alike as sinless, who, according to His word, is God Himself, the perfect revelation
and is the sum of the prophesies of the OT and the worker of the NT with over 40 or so authors with differing perspectives.

---

IN BLUE:

I have no grudge against people who believe, only the ones that tell me their opinions are the truth and if I don't believe their biased opinions, then I will be in "HELL"!!!!!!.....

I'm happy that you don't view hell as some torture chamber as told within the "Christian/Qur'an" bible, but it still does not take away from the fact that you are believing in something that has no evidence other than your opinions...Regardless of what other texts you read to "Help" you understand the Bible... (Amazon.com has plenty more books from authors that can help you with the Bible as well..)...

Just so you know for future reference...When I have my rants on this forum, it is to the majority that view the Bible as 100% factual material and base their every living existence on it. I don't know where you are from, but here in the U.S. (Southern section) the majority believes that way and have no problem with going "Holy-Roller" on someone who questions them....

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I live in Hampton, VA. I'm sorry for your negative experiences with religion. I'm not sure you'll find too many fundamentalists on an Atheist forum to rant to. Perhaps when you call out a rant I'll just ignore it or let the athesists on this site pat you on the back and tell you it'lll be all right.

|
| Is great at man-crushing theist bashers
V

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Tack's position can be basically summarized as "my god is real but all the others are false."


Which is pretty much true of all religious bullshit from the beginning of time.

---

Once again your lack of contextual insight and uninterpreatble stance belie your namesake. Get a new name and stop making suppositions.
I never came even close to sayin my God is real, yours isn't. My God is real to me. It's the same God I feel worshiped thoughout time. The nature and attributes have evolved and warped many times over the centuries. I don't preclude other belief systems, I may however examine their construct of their idea of God.

[Samson]

Religion should be subjective and personal. Atheists attempt to try and turn religion into science, and the intangible just doens't work that way, just look at degrees of freedom in the sciences.

I'm sorry, but you are very wrong on this statement. Atheist are not trying to turn religion into Science. Critical thinking and a bit of common sense is all that is needed.

Well, maybe not "All"......Parents that don't subject their children to this as a "FACT" would help out a little bit..

The Qur'an is merely a book whose authenticity rests solely on the shoulders of one finite man. It is no match against Jesus, revered by Muslims and Christians alike as sinless, who, according to His word, is God Himself, the perfect revelation
and is the sum of the prophesies of the OT and the worker of the NT with over 40 or so authors with differing perspectives.

Are you serious??

Number one...40 or so authors for the 5 books of Moses, yes.......But your number is a little off when it comes to the rest...

Number two...Your Jesus makes rules of slavery (Regardless of parables) and introduces the first of "Hell". (Keep in mind the O.T. did not have a "Hell" until the idiots mistranslated or purposely changed the word "Grave" to "Hell" "MUCH" later)...


In the Qur'an, slave owners were written in as the unjust....
And keep in mind, the Qur'an was written in Arabic originally and is still put forth today......Can you say the same about your book??? The Bible throughout the O.T. and N.T. "NEVER" mentions slave owners as being unjust...."NOT", until the "New International Version" came out in the 1960's - 1970's.....


I'm not trying to defend the Muslim belief.... It is just as fucked up as the rest, but the really screwy thing is, is that "Christians" got their bullshit book from the same break off as the Hebrew bullshit...Funny enough, the Jews and Muslims actually agree on one major thing, and that is that "Jesus" is not the same definitional person as the Bible you follow...

So, when you try and tell me that.."It is no match for Jesus", it really doesn't have the same umf...

I live in Hampton, VA. I'm sorry for your negative experiences with religion. I'm not sure you'll find too many fundamentalists on an Atheist forum to rant to. Perhaps when you call out a rant I'll just ignore it or let the athesists on this site pat you on the back and tell you it'lll be all right.

|
| Is great at man-crushing theist bashers
V

I had a 50/50 with "Religion"..Negative on some aspects and positive with others....

It took "Both" to make me, "See the Light" (so to speak ..lol)

The negative, to drive me away from it after years of being told it was fact and "yada yada yada".....

The positive to make me reflect on the negative;

My personal experiences of, Education, World travel, Languages, cultures, Marriage, Children, my teenagers, etc. have made the difference..

Tack.....If you would have told me that "You" believe in a "Higher Power/god"...I could see the rationalization and perspective in that for your personal on-look...But then you say you are a "Christian"....and this is what throws it out of a rational thought.....Even if you said you were Muslim or Judean...etc.


As far as your last comment..."Minimalist" I consider a friend on these forums and others for more than 2 years and know him to "type" it straight and narrow....I'm sure he'll be more than happy to reply back on his own...lolol


Tack, thanks again for the replies back and the in-depth discussions......And again,.. I don't view them as "Preaching", but merely a personal reasoning....

[tackattack]

[quote='Samson' pid='55859' dateline='1266114825']

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[quote]Religion should be subjective and personal. Atheists attempt to try and turn religion into science, and the intangible just doens't work that way, just look at degrees of freedom in the sciences.[/quote]

I'm sorry, but you are very wrong on this statement. Atheist are not trying to turn religion into Science. Critical thinking and a bit of common sense is all that is needed.

Well, maybe not "All"......Parents that don't subject their children to this as a "FACT" would help out a little bit..


[quote]The Qur'an is merely a book whose authenticity rests solely on the shoulders of one finite man. It is no match against Jesus, revered by Muslims and Christians alike as sinless, who, according to His word, is God Himself, the perfect revelation
and is the sum of the prophesies of the OT and the worker of the NT with over 40 or so authors with differing perspectives.
Are you serious??

Number one...40 or so authors for the 5 books of Moses, yes.......But your number is a little off when it comes to the rest...

Number two...Your Jesus makes rules of slavery (Regardless of parables) and introduces the first of "Hell". (Keep in mind the O.T. did not have a "Hell" until the idiots mistranslated or purposely changed the word "Grave" to "Hell" "MUCH" later)...


In the Qur'an, slave owners were written in as the unjust....
And keep in mind, the Qur'an was written in Arabic originally and is still put forth today......Can you say the same about your book??? The Bible throughout the O.T. and N.T. "NEVER" mentions slave owners as being unjust...."NOT", until the "New International Version" came out in the 1960's - 1970's.....


I'm not trying to defend the Muslim belief.... It is just as fucked up as the rest, but the really screwy thing is, is that "Christians" got their bullshit book from the same break off as the Hebrew bullshit...Funny enough, the Jews and Muslims actually agree on one major thing, and that is that "Jesus" is not the same definitional person as the Bible you follow...

So, when you try and tell me that.."It is no match for Jesus", it really doesn't have the same umf...



[quote]

Tack.....If you would have told me that "You" believe in a "Higher Power/god"...I could see the rationalization and perspective in that for your personal on-look...But then you say you are a "Christian"....and this is what throws it out of a rational thought.....Even if you said you were Muslim or Judean...etc.


As far as your last comment..."Minimalist" I consider a friend on these forums and others for more than 2 years and know him to "type" it straight and narrow....I'm sure he'll be more than happy to reply back on his own...lolol


Tack, thanks again for the replies back and the in-depth discussions......And again,.. I don't view them as "Preaching", but merely a personal reasoning....

---

[/quote]

1- I was talking about 40 authors over all, both NT and OT, my wording was a little off. I don't punctuate as often as I should.

2- I agree that Atheist are not trying to turn religion into Science. I was just getting a little frustrated. Science and religion both have degrees of freedom or Scalable values for unproovable assumptions. I just happen to have defined mine as faith and science uses numbers. Both are just mental constructs.

3-I've already gone over the slave thing elsewhere. The laws of Moses established how to treat a slave, the laws of Jesus, pointed to those laws as parable for living. Any salesman would speak to you in a language you understood with common terms for the local area. A salesman from Louisana would have to try some new language when selling things in Maine.

4- I'm not farmiliar with the hell references not being in the OT, perhaps you could suggest some reading, with links. As far as what I do know about hell ""I believe that hell is essentially separation from God, so we can have hell in this life and hell in the life to come..," Graham told an interviewer in 1991." But to describe hell in vivid terms like I might have done 30 or 40 years ago, I'm not at liberty to do that because whether there is actually fire in hell or not, I DO NOT KNOW." - Billy Graham. I know hell is shown 31 times in the OT in the KJV, but zero in the NIV, because it's more about a state of the soul not a geographic location.

5- As far as justifying slavery I'm aware the Bible never attempt to say it is unjust. It was written by men and inspired by God. Perhaps eternal salvation was more important message to convey to feeble minds than items of commerce and trade. Some slaves sold themselves into it. True most were war criminals I believe, but it was day-to -day life back then. To come out against it outright would have obviously crippled it's message spreasing through the populace. Jesus never condones it, merely uses it as an example through metaphor.

I think I covered everything, but I'm getting very sleepy now.

[Minimalist]

It was written by men. and inspired by God.

FIXED.

[Watson]

It was written by men. and inspired by God.

FIXED.

ITT: Complete misunderstanding of what the term "inspired by God" means.