Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: June 25, 2022, 4:26 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
God is love. God is just. God is merciful.
#21
RE: God is love. God is just. God is merciful.
(October 5, 2014 at 9:14 am)alpha male Wrote: That's the point of the cross. The judge paid the just penalty himself, which allows him to be merciful as well.

You'll likely complain that it's not just to allow one person to pay the penalty for another. That's fine as your opinion. God sees it otherwise, and as lawmaker and judge it's his opinion that counts.

So, your god's justice is subject to his opinion? That makes it subjective. And since most people talk about objective laws when considering what is just and what isn't, your god's "subjective justice" is meaningless. He could just as easily be of the opinion that everyone should pay the same penalty regardless of actions and call that justice.
Reply
#22
RE: God is love. God is just. God is merciful.
(October 5, 2014 at 9:25 am)genkaus Wrote: So, your god's justice is subject to his opinion?
Yes. There's not some objective law outside of and superior to God to which he must submit.
Quote:That makes it subjective. And since most people talk about objective laws when considering what is just and what isn't, your god's "subjective justice" is meaningless.
All laws are subjective.
Quote:He could just as easily be of the opinion that everyone should pay the same penalty regardless of actions and call that justice.
Yep.
Reply
#23
RE: God is love. God is just. God is merciful.
(October 5, 2014 at 2:59 pm)alpha male Wrote: All laws are subjective.

There are plenty of objective laws available which do provide fair and just judgments. But apparently, your god's laws are neither objective nor fair.
Reply
#24
RE: God is love. God is just. God is merciful.
(October 5, 2014 at 9:14 am)alpha male Wrote: That's the point of the cross. The judge paid the just penalty himself, which allows him to be merciful as well.

You'll likely complain that it's not just to allow one person to pay the penalty for another. That's fine as your opinion. God sees it otherwise, and as lawmaker and judge it's his opinion that counts.
1) He orchestrated the crime, he sanctioned the punishment, he determined the penalty, he paid that penalty, to himself.
- Sounds more like a psycho dictator to me.

2) I'd actually complain he didn't pay the penalty. If you pay the officer for your speeding ticket, and then snatch the money back from him, that's not paying the penalty. Similarly, JC didn't stay dead, he played possum for three days then flew away.

3) How do you know God is the lord and judge? And how do you know there's no one above him? As far as I know, YHWH is or rather was a lower member of an ancient pantheon of other gods.
Quote:To know yet to think that one does not know is best; Not to know yet to think that one knows will lead to difficulty.
- Lau Tzu

Join me on atheistforums Slack Cool Shades (pester tibs via pm if you need invite) Tongue

Reply
#25
RE: God is love. God is just. God is merciful.
(October 5, 2014 at 3:22 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote:
(October 5, 2014 at 9:14 am)alpha male Wrote: That's the point of the cross. The judge paid the just penalty himself, which allows him to be merciful as well.

You'll likely complain that it's not just to allow one person to pay the penalty for another. That's fine as your opinion. God sees it otherwise, and as lawmaker and judge it's his opinion that counts.
1) He orchestrated the crime, he sanctioned the punishment, he determined the penalty, he paid that penalty, to himself.
- Sounds more like a psycho dictator to me.

2) I'd actually complain he didn't pay the penalty. If you pay the officer for your speeding ticket, and then snatch the money back from him, that's not paying the penalty. Similarly, JC didn't stay dead, he played possum for three days then flew away.

3) How do you know God is the lord and judge? And how do you know there's no one above him? As far as I know, YHWH is or rather was a lower member of an ancient pantheon of other gods.

Actually, he only played dead for less than two days.

Friday mid-day to Sunday morning. Not even 48 hours.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
Reply
#26
RE: God is love. God is just. God is merciful.
(October 3, 2014 at 8:48 pm)Drich Wrote: Maybe the question should be to whom God is loving, merciful and just?

God loved Barabbas but he still hates Esau.
Reply
#27
RE: God is love. God is just. God is merciful.
(October 5, 2014 at 3:22 pm)genkaus Wrote: There are plenty of objective laws available which do provide fair and just judgments. But apparently, your god's laws are neither objective nor fair.
Ask those convicted if the laws and punishments are fair and just. Many of them will say they're not. Yet you think they are. That's because law is ultimately subjective, not objective. Even if you use some objective framework, the choice of that framework over others was ultimately subjective.
Reply
#28
RE: God is love. God is just. God is merciful.
(October 6, 2014 at 7:50 am)alpha male Wrote: Ask those convicted if the laws and punishments are fair and just. Many of them will say they're not. Yet you think they are. That's because law is ultimately subjective, not objective. Even if you use some objective framework, the choice of that framework over others was ultimately subjective.

Why do you think fairness and justice depends on what the convicts or I say? It doesn't. Law is ultimately objective - though some subjectivity creeps in here and there. The choice of that framework isn't dependent upon someone's wishes or whims, which is why it isn't subjective.
Reply
#29
RE: God is love. God is just. God is merciful.
(October 6, 2014 at 8:06 am)genkaus Wrote: Why do you think fairness and justice depends on what the convicts or I say?
Because if it were objective, everyone would agree on it.
Reply
#30
RE: God is love. God is just. God is merciful.
(October 6, 2014 at 8:53 am)alpha male Wrote: Because if it were objective, everyone would agree on it.

Nonsense. There are plenty of objective concepts people disagree about.
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Love of God vs love of a woman Mystic 51 4123 September 26, 2018 at 9:49 pm
Last Post: chimp3
  Don't you just love the hypocrisy of religion. ignoramus 86 18294 July 16, 2017 at 7:04 am
Last Post: Der/die AtheistIn
  Punishing God vs Forbearing/Merciful God Mystic 16 7476 March 10, 2012 at 2:23 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  "The Compassionate, the Merciful"? Mystic 10 4220 February 8, 2012 at 6:27 pm
Last Post: Doubting Thomas



Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)