Debunking atheists on christians not following the law of moses

[Chad32]

If Jesus is the same guy as Yahweh from the old testament, like some christians claim, we can still hold him responsible for everything done in the old testament. Even without that, we can find faults in Jesus from the new testament.

Maybe people wouldn't bring up the old testament as much if it wasn't included in most bibles, and if it didn't take up about two thirds of the book. This is what you get for claiming he either is Yahweh, or serves Yahweh.

There are conflicting verses when it comes to the old testament. Jesus saying not a jot or title will be changed, and saying he who forgets the least of these laws will be called least in heaven.

[Crossless2.0]

What's funny about the OP is that the supporting "evidence" cited that atheists are being unfair to Christians for their approach to scripture is exclusively Pauline. Well, no shit! Members here by now know that I never tire of railing against Paul and his ministry to the Gentiles -- and the damage he was willing to inflict on how the Hebrew scriptures were approached and mangled by his Gentile converts. Before there was a normative set of documents -- a New Testament -- there were many conflicting points of view as to what being a "Christian" meant. Modern Christians have so thoroughly swallowed Paul's spin that they never seem to step back and ask whether his version ought to be taken seriously. In spite of the gloss Acts tries to put on Paul's interactions with the original community of believers -- practicing Jews all -- there was a real rift between what is taught in his letters and, say, the Epistle of James. Paul won out because he was selling to a larger market and made it easy for his converts to embrace the faith because he was willing to gut everything that was distinctively Jewish about it. We can't really know what Jesus would have made of this spiritual used car salesman, but I doubt he would have been impressed, to say the least. When I question Christians about why they don't do more than pay lip service to the so-called Old Testament, it's because I refuse to concede that Paul ought to get a free pass and have the last word.

[Chas]

[quote='Chas' pid='783815' dateline='1414461471']

What? No. The sabbath in the U.S. is not Saturday. Where did you get that idea?

Wot I just googled image the American calendar. I most be in a paralell universe lol

7th Day Adventists have church on the 7th day of the week, Saturday. (look at your calendar, Sunday is on the left, Saturday is clear to the right)

So, now that I think about it, most of the christers in the USofA don't honor the sabbath and go to church on the wrong day.

Seriously? Sunday is Sunday. Your argument is childish.

[Rokchan]

If Jesus is the same guy as Yahweh from the old testament, like some christians claim, we can still hold him responsible for everything done in the old testament. Even without that, we can find faults in Jesus from the new testament.

Maybe people wouldn't bring up the old testament as much if it wasn't included in most bibles, and if it didn't take up about two thirds of the book. This is what you get for claiming he either is Yahweh, or serves Yahweh.

There are conflicting verses when it comes to the old testament. Jesus saying not a jot or title will be changed, and saying he who forgets the least of these laws will be called least in heaven.

I'm not defending that the god is the same, just in what christians practice. God must have done a poor job if he had to make a new religion

Punishment and then... yeah forgiveness is in

it's because I refuse to concede that Paul ought to get a free pass and have the last word.

You're entitled to your opinion on it
Troll face

[Losty]

"Giving virgin single woman to a rapist in exchange for some fees.
Or
Stoning people. Oh no the horrors"

Do you not think it's wrong to sell rape victims to their rapists and/or stone people to death?


"So the law of moses is hereby numb."

Bullshit. I was a Christian for all but 2.5 years of my life. The law of Moses is neither "numb" nor is it null and void. The judgment belongs to god and god alone. The law is still completely valid. The only difference is that now instead of punishing each other for violations, only god can punish us for them after we die.

"And you can also attack them for giving women rights. The new testament obviously want women to not teach in public. Oh and slavery "

How do you feel about women's rights and slavery?

[AceBoogie]

To OP

Ok...

It's hard for atheists to have respect for people who claim to be on thing then are another. It's hard for anyone to respect that, in fact. So many Christians follow the Bible in so many various ways that it is difficult for us to get an accurate representation of what a CHRISTIAN is, lest one consider how many different denominations of Christianity there is.

I read a great book on the subject called 'Jesus, Save Us from Your Followers' by a Christian and I have to admit I really enjoyed the book. It is about how most Christians now days have little to no knowledge of what is in the Bible and how most of them don't exactly live a Christian life, though they self-identify as 'Christians.'

If god is all-loving, how exactly does that line up with how god was in the Old Testament?

Regardless, if Christians do not obey the Old Testament, what is it there for? To scare Christians into remembering how scary and mean god can be? Isn't that a scare tactic? Shouldn't a real Christian be a good person for reasons other than being scared of how god COULD be if his rules are not followed?

Then even Christians who do claim to follow the NT tend to pick and choose what to follow. Some Christians also pick and choose what parts of the Bible to follow whether they are OT or NT teachings. That's the problem, there is no clear cut distinction about what a real Christian is, so it's hard for many people to take it very seriously.

[vorlon13]

[quote='Chas' pid='783815' dateline='1414461471']

What? No. The sabbath in the U.S. is not Saturday. Where did you get that idea?

Wot I just googled image the American calendar. I most be in a paralell universe lol

7th Day Adventists have church on the 7th day of the week, Saturday. (look at your calendar, Sunday is on the left, Saturday is clear to the right)

So, now that I think about it, most of the christers in the USofA don't honor the sabbath and go to church on the wrong day.

Seriously? Sunday is Sunday. Your argument is childish.

Hey, give the 7th Day Adventists some credit there. They actually go to church on the, ahem, 7th day of the week, hence the name 7th day Adventist. Get it ? It's not that complicated. The day God rested. They day they are supposed to take off and worship the big guy. The last day of the week.

Saturday.

Most of the rest of the christers are w-r-o-n-g about one more thing there. LOL!!

BTW, I'm sure the 7th Day Adventists are fucking up something else, the odds of them being the One True Faith are still miniscule. I'm not asserting worshipping god on the ordained day is their "Get out of HELL" card. Undoubtedly they don't handle deadly serpents or drink deadly things, so they are screwed just on that.

[JuliaL]

So if the big guy in the blue sky changed his mind about enforcing the OT rules, shouldn't NT people be concerned that he's going to pull the same stunt again, not to their benefit? Seems to me scriptural instructions on what is still actionable are vague enough that this guy can't be trusted not to weasel in the future. If the law is no longer active, then he is pretty slippery about changing the terms of a covenant after signing.
He can do that given his day job of ruler of the universe but that's no help to me or the Christian who's fully vested.

[Rokchan]

Wot I just googled image the American calendar. I most be in a paralell universe lol


Seriously? Sunday is Sunday. Your argument is childish.

Hey, give the 7th Day Adventists some credit there. They actually go to church on the, ahem, 7th day of the week, hence the name 7th day Adventist. Get it ? It's not that complicated. The day God rested. They day they are supposed to take off and worship the big guy. The last day of the week.

Saturday.

Most of the rest of the christers are w-r-o-n-g about one more thing there. LOL!!

BTW, I'm sure the 7th Day Adventists are fucking up something else, the odds of them being the One True Faith are still miniscule. I'm not asserting worshipping god on the ordained day is their "Get out of HELL" card. Undoubtedly they don't handle deadly serpents or drink deadly things, so they are screwed just on that.

The thing is "The day of rest" or the sabbath can basically be any day aslong as its the 7th day, Thats it. Its just according to Jewish tradition Saturday.

I could just say. You know what, Monday sounds like a good 7th day or something.

I guess christians in Europe use Sunday due to Jesus, while in USA they honor jewish traditions more.

To OP

Ok...

It's hard for atheists to have respect for people who claim to be on thing then are another. It's hard for anyone to respect that, in fact. So many Christians follow the Bible in so many various ways that it is difficult for us to get an accurate representation of what a CHRISTIAN is, lest one consider how many different denominations of Christianity there is.

I read a great book on the subject called 'Jesus, Save Us from Your Followers' by a Christian and I have to admit I really enjoyed the book. It is about how most Christians now days have little to no knowledge of what is in the Bible and how most of them don't exactly live a Christian life, though they self-identify as 'Christians.'

If god is all-loving, how exactly does that line up with how god was in the Old Testament?

Regardless, if Christians do not obey the Old Testament, what is it there for? To scare Christians into remembering how scary and mean god can be? Isn't that a scare tactic? Shouldn't a real Christian be a good person for reasons other than being scared of how god COULD be if his rules are not followed?

Then even Christians who do claim to follow the NT tend to pick and choose what to follow. Some Christians also pick and choose what parts of the Bible to follow whether they are OT or NT teachings. That's the problem, there is no clear cut distinction about what a real Christian is, so it's hard for many people to take it very seriously.

I would believe in God if i knew it was true. Cant speak for other gods. But i know the abrahamic religions are wrong due to historical archeological facts of Israel. History is great that way

Yeah, the classic cherry pickers. My parrents seem to be somewhat knowing about it atleast. Even though i dont believe in what they believe. But i have not met yet a christian who i have had a problem with, maybe my brother. He seem to not have cared to look for the scriptures.

But i notice that people who are tollerant of ridicule are usually the nice people in my opinion, or ignorant and just believes and accepts it. Which i was during a young age. Because i accepted that people were different. But its like at that age you are so busy with games, movies and friends. I doubt anyone as a kid would even care to read the bible. When they grow up thats another story. And since its religious conflicts today it has been put much more forth than ever.

Although its mostly about islamic fundamentalists. But in general sense.

Well yeah. I dont believe that either
God of the old just punishes.
While God of the new forgives. Its kinda double standards

I just defend christians in the terms of practice, not of what monster the old was
Jesus seems to be ok with the old god to be cool though lol. I mean i would probably even say it if i had angry mobs at me at the time. I mean we are speaking of people gonna kill you if you say something bad. Try to think if you were in Saudi Arabia. But you are right comparing the old to the new is kinda two parallels.

[Chas]

Wot I just googled image the American calendar. I most be in a paralell universe lol


Seriously? Sunday is Sunday. Your argument is childish.

Hey, give the 7th Day Adventists some credit there. They actually go to church on the, ahem, 7th day of the week, hence the name 7th day Adventist. Get it ? It's not that complicated. The day God rested. They day they are supposed to take off and worship the big guy. The last day of the week.

Saturday.

Most of the rest of the christers are w-r-o-n-g about one more thing there. LOL!!

BTW, I'm sure the 7th Day Adventists are fucking up something else, the odds of them being the One True Faith are still miniscule. I'm not asserting worshipping god on the ordained day is their "Get out of HELL" card. Undoubtedly they don't handle deadly serpents or drink deadly things, so they are screwed just on that.

You haven't considered that when it is Sunday in New York it is Sunday in York.
Sunday is Sunday. What day the calendar week starts on is a civil, not a religious, convention.
The Seventh Day Adventists are a tiny cult. Your argument is silly.

---

Hey, give the 7th Day Adventists some credit there. They actually go to church on the, ahem, 7th day of the week, hence the name 7th day Adventist. Get it ? It's not that complicated. The day God rested. They day they are supposed to take off and worship the big guy. The last day of the week.

Saturday.

Most of the rest of the christers are w-r-o-n-g about one more thing there. LOL!!

BTW, I'm sure the 7th Day Adventists are fucking up something else, the odds of them being the One True Faith are still miniscule. I'm not asserting worshipping god on the ordained day is their "Get out of HELL" card. Undoubtedly they don't handle deadly serpents or drink deadly things, so they are screwed just on that.

The thing is "The day of rest" or the sabbath can basically be any day aslong as its the 7th day, Thats it. Its just according to Jewish tradition Saturday.

I could just say. You know what, Monday sounds like a good 7th day or something.

I guess christians in Europe use Sunday due to Jesus, while in USA they honor jewish traditions more.

Your argument is incoherent. The Jewish Shabbat is from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday.

All of the blue laws in the U.S. pertain to Sunday as the sabbath.