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Atheism = Desperation
#81
RE: Atheism = Desperation
(November 3, 2014 at 11:22 am)ChadWooters Wrote:
(November 2, 2014 at 2:06 pm)Beccs Wrote: A child not taught the god concept will not come up with the god concept on its own, so long as it has access to science and education.
Really? Is that I scientific fact or just your own speculation?

Chad,
I'll grant that a child's imagination could conjure up a god, but I think it's reasonable to assume it would not resemble the god of the Bible; that would require indoctrination.
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#82
RE: Atheism = Desperation
(November 2, 2014 at 1:27 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Asserting randomness misses the boat by ignoring the fact that physics and the previous states the universe was in doesn't allow for anything to happen. It is, in fact, within a set of values; in other words, not random.
Now you are well on your way to understanding why the first mover is the necessary to regulate the movement of things from potentiality to actuality. For something to be non-random means that there must be a more fundamental causes. Follow the logic, Esquilax. If you need some help, Feser's "Last Superstition" is a good start for someone just starting to learn about Neo-Scholasticism.
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#83
RE: Atheism = Desperation
(November 3, 2014 at 11:36 am)ChadWooters Wrote: Now you are well on your way to understanding why the first mover is the necessary to regulate the movement of things from potentiality to actuality. For something to be non-random means that there must be a more fundamental causes. Follow the logic, Esquilax. If you need some help, Feser's "Last Superstition" is a good start for someone just starting to learn about Neo-Scholasticism.

Even if a first mover is necessary -- and we don't know that that is the case in this Universe -- that doesn't mean it should be imbued with personality or moral significance.

Even if such a mover were necessary, which hasn't been shown, he may well have turned on the light and then gone back to sleep. However, getting to the first step, showing the necessity for such a phenomenon, is the big hurdle that catches the faithful in the crotch, such that they're typically reduced to argument by fiat.

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#84
RE: Atheism = Desperation
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#85
RE: Atheism = Desperation
(November 3, 2014 at 7:51 am)AtlasS Wrote: ( 47 ) And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander. page 522

That's why I mainly believe the Quran did provide an evidence of god..
I would sure try to get the book ; I didn't hear of the writer before.

Oh, please, you sound just plain silly Smile

As all other apologetic "interpreters" you take the word which was never translated or understood certain way before, till it was convenient and useful to align it with current scientific thought in attempt to make your holly book less stale.

Even Hamza Tzortzis stopped that B.S. some time ago.

Here is excerpt from his article:

Quote:Regrettably, the scientific miracles narrative has become an intellectual embarrassment for Muslim apologists, including myself.

Here is the link: CLICK ME !

So, stop it, please, just believe (if you must), replace you fear of death with fear of final judgment like every other good theist and you are good to go Smile
Why Won't God Heal Amputees ? 

Oči moje na ormaru stoje i gledaju kako sarma kipi  Tongue
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#86
RE: Atheism = Desperation
(November 1, 2014 at 4:27 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote: Atheism is a faith. It is the faith in humanity. Without it you'd lose any and all hope for humanity.

I'm an atheist and humanity is totally fucked.
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#87
RE: Atheism = Desperation
(November 3, 2014 at 11:36 am)ChadWooters Wrote: Now you are well on your way to understanding why the first mover is the necessary to regulate the movement of things from potentiality to actuality. For something to be non-random means that there must be a more fundamental causes. Follow the logic, Esquilax. If you need some help, Feser's "Last Superstition" is a good start for someone just starting to learn about Neo-Scholasticism.

Or it could just be that everything is not, in fact, possible. By your logic a rock must be designed because it will never just instantaneously lift off and fly into space. Since when has existence within a limited set of variables ever implied design?

Besides, I've already dispensed with this first mover crap. I know it agrees with what you want to be true in the most simplistic way possible, and so you're willing to accept it no matter what, but "here's a set of blunt assertions about the universe, here's a problem with those assertions that hasn't been demonstrated, and so there must be a thing which breaks the rules I've already bluntly asserted in order to resolve a problem I can't demonstrate exists," is not a cogent argument. It's a rambling, incoherent mess of assertions that do not in any way conform to reality, based upon definitions that I'm not required to, nor do I, accept.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee

Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
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#88
RE: Atheism = Desperation
(November 1, 2014 at 5:12 am)AtlasS Wrote: Hello. How are you guys ?

The concept of observing (which gave birth to the scientific method) is simply about spending time checking the surroundings of a person deeply. Especially the events which take place away from human intervention.

Observing opened up the gates to admit & conclude by every scientist in the world, that our universe is ruled & governed by an invisible law which is not viewable outside the written form of a mathematical equation or a chemical formula.

But when I think about a difference between "Islam" & "Atheism", I usually see the biggest difference since both branches of faith have scientists & smart people, which is "desperation".

Atheists are desperate from the idea of a merciful beautiful god, who actually gave this universe a law after creating it.
Just like a band of cavemen who found an archeological monument, instead of admitting that somebody built it, the cavemen just said "it's randomly built !! nature built it".

While a Muslim scientist is not desperate at all. There is an entity which made all of this, the signs are there, and an entity that created all of this cannot be lesser than the one & only "god". Allah in Arabic.

Desperation is very bad. It's not just bad, it's evil actually to see the universe, and just plainly and simply say "this is randomly created".

It defies science. It's a desperate act of utter desperation.

I dare you to make less sense.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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#89
RE: Atheism = Desperation
(November 3, 2014 at 3:40 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:
(November 1, 2014 at 5:12 am)AtlasS Wrote: Hello. How are you guys ?

The concept of observing (which gave birth to the scientific method) is simply about spending time checking the surroundings of a person deeply. Especially the events which take place away from human intervention.

Observing opened up the gates to admit & conclude by every scientist in the world, that our universe is ruled & governed by an invisible law which is not viewable outside the written form of a mathematical equation or a chemical formula.

But when I think about a difference between "Islam" & "Atheism", I usually see the biggest difference since both branches of faith have scientists & smart people, which is "desperation".

Atheists are desperate from the idea of a merciful beautiful god, who actually gave this universe a law after creating it.
Just like a band of cavemen who found an archeological monument, instead of admitting that somebody built it, the cavemen just said "it's randomly built !! nature built it".

While a Muslim scientist is not desperate at all. There is an entity which made all of this, the signs are there, and an entity that created all of this cannot be lesser than the one & only "god". Allah in Arabic.

Desperation is very bad. It's not just bad, it's evil actually to see the universe, and just plainly and simply say "this is randomly created".

It defies science. It's a desperate act of utter desperation.

I dare you to make less sense.

DON'T DO IT MA!
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#90
RE: Atheism = Desperation
(November 3, 2014 at 3:20 pm)Esquilax Wrote: [quote='ChadWooters' pid='788737' dateline='1415029000']
Now you are well on your way to understanding why the first mover is the necessary to regulate the movement of things from potentiality to actuality....
By your logic a rock must be designed because it will never just instantaneously lift off and fly into space. Since when has existence within a limited set of variables ever implied design?(emphasis mine)

The fact that you think the unmoved mover has anything at all to do with a design argument demonstrates your appalling ignorance. That type of arrogant ignorance is why I do not take your objections seriously and no one else should either.
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