Sociopaths

[paulpablo]

I seem to have sociopathic tendencies.

But according to this test I am not a sociopath:
Sociopath Test

The problem with these tests in my opinion is, I really don't think sociopaths see themselves as sociopaths, and even if they do they probably would just lie on a test anyway, if indeed sociopaths are more comfortable lying than telling the truth.
This is why when I've heard people telling me they're a sociopath, I think it's more likely they're just falling for the modern, mainly American trend of self diagnosing yourself with mental problems.

[vorlon13]

IANMTU, had a family member who worked with a serial killer (unaware) and after the apprehension, the authorities really pestered him with questions about all aspects of the guy. At work, he was totally normal. The guy gave no indication at all he was recreationally killing women.

The authorities were particularly interested if the guy had ever talked or hinted of any other place he had been at any time, vacations, business trips, etc, but the guy was VERY skilled at his 'hobby', and left very few clues about anything.

[rexbeccarox]

Wow. That's gnarly, Vorlon!

[DeistPaladin]

Question:
Are narcissists also sociopaths by definition; is the former a subset of the latter?

Because my understanding is a sociopath doesn't care about right or wrong. The narcissist, IMO, is someone who is so self-deluded and self-absorbed that they are oblivious to any wrongs they commit.

PaulPaublo's story also sounds to me more like a narcissist than a sociopath. Maybe this is a hair-splitting distinction, and I agree with PP's statement that as a layman, I need to be careful of diagnosing, so let me preface this is just my opinion. Both his experience and mine were with someone who lies about their own wrongdoing, rewriting history in their own brains, so that they can either justify it or pretend they never did it.

Case studies of sociopaths that I'm familiar with, by contrast, are where they are caviler about the wrongs they committed. They have no need to rationalize their behavior or deny anything.

Those more formally trained in psychology: please correct me if I'm wrong.

[paulpablo]

Question:
Are narcissists also sociopaths by definition; is the former a subset of the latter?

Because my understanding is a sociopath doesn't care about right or wrong. The narcissist, IMO, is someone who is so self-deluded and self-absorbed that they are oblivious to any wrongs they commit.

PaulPaublo's story also sounds to me more like a narcissist than a sociopath. Maybe this is a hair-splitting distinction, and I agree with PP's statement that as a layman, I need to be careful of diagnosing, so let me preface this is just my opinion. Both his experience and mine were with someone who lies about their own wrongdoing, rewriting history in their own brains, so that they can either justify it or pretend they never did it.

Case studies of sociopaths that I'm familiar with, by contrast, are where they are caviler about the wrongs they committed. They have no need to rationalize their behavior or deny anything.

Those more formally trained in psychology: please correct me if I'm wrong.

You may be right, but like I said I don't know for 100 percent certain he did believe his own lies, It just came to the point where I thought I don't know exactly what is wrong with this guy but life's too short to be analyzing the behaviors of drug addicted, arrogant losers. Unless you're getting paid for it, which I wasn't.

[DeistPaladin]

You may be right, but like I said I don't know for 100 percent certain he did believe his own lies, It just came to the point where I thought I don't know exactly what is wrong with this guy but life's too short to be analyzing the behaviors of drug addicted, arrogant losers. Unless you're getting paid for it, which I wasn't.

Quite agreed. I was just asking for my own education.

As a side note, a game I've played before at freethought meetings is called, "Liar or Crazy?" We muse about apologists and ask if they're really this full of shit or they're doing an act because their paid to do it.

You can never know for sure.

[Violet]

I've just had one fuck me up considerably.

Are you sure you weren't dealing with a 'psychopath', then? I'm sorry, regardless.

I'm wondering what other people's experiences are: are you a sociopath? If not, have you had a run-in with one? What happened?

I'm probably not 'a sociopath'. I have indeed had a 'run in' with one. We had sex, and it's one of the most wonderful memories in my life

He's one of my two childhood friends, I like him... but then I suppose I ought, as one might reasonably accuse me of being a psychopath

---

IANMTU, had a family member who worked with a serial killer (unaware) and after the apprehension, the authorities really pestered him with questions about all aspects of the guy. At work, he was totally normal. The guy gave no indication at all he was recreationally killing women.

The authorities were particularly interested if the guy had ever talked or hinted of any other place he had been at any time, vacations, business trips, etc, but the guy was VERY skilled at his 'hobby', and left very few clues about anything.

How'd they figure it out? I'm curious.

[vorlon13]

He managed to get incarcerated for something else. While penned up, he started to raise a few suspicions among the staff, and investigators started to work him up as a suspect in some unsolved cases.

He appeared totally normal to civilians like my uncle, but once around law enforcement types with experience with sociopaths, he became increasingly suspicious. He also tried to escape, and I think some of the particulars of that further emphasized his ruthlessness and cold blooded intensity.

Around my uncle, his boss, he had to 'behave', and he did. Anyone connected to him through work would not be target of his so as to not raise suspicions. When he had a victim alone, with no one else around he revealed his true nature.

Disturbingly, there are no shortage of unsolved murders to this day, his pathology was not unique.

[Faith No More]

Question:
Are narcissists also sociopaths by definition; is the former a subset of the latter?

Because my understanding is a sociopath doesn't care about right or wrong. The narcissist, IMO, is someone who is so self-deluded and self-absorbed that they are oblivious to any wrongs they commit.

PaulPaublo's story also sounds to me more like a narcissist than a sociopath. Maybe this is a hair-splitting distinction, and I agree with PP's statement that as a layman, I need to be careful of diagnosing, so let me preface this is just my opinion. Both his experience and mine were with someone who lies about their own wrongdoing, rewriting history in their own brains, so that they can either justify it or pretend they never did it.

Case studies of sociopaths that I'm familiar with, by contrast, are where they are caviler about the wrongs they committed. They have no need to rationalize their behavior or deny anything.

Those more formally trained in psychology: please correct me if I'm wrong.

I think narcissism and sociopathy are kind of like anxiety and depression. They go hand in hand and influence each other, but are distinct attributes. Sociopathy is seeing people simply as a means to an end, while narcissism is thinking the world owes you because you are special. One isn't necessarily a subset of the other, but the two can fuel each other. Most people that you would label either of those take a little from column A and a little from column B. I don't think there's a distinct categorization that clearly separates the two.

[downbeatplumb]

Question:
Are narcissists also sociopaths by definition; is the former a subset of the latter?

Because my understanding is a sociopath doesn't care about right or wrong. The narcissist, IMO, is someone who is so self-deluded and self-absorbed that they are oblivious to any wrongs they commit.

PaulPaublo's story also sounds to me more like a narcissist than a sociopath. Maybe this is a hair-splitting distinction, and I agree with PP's statement that as a layman, I need to be careful of diagnosing, so let me preface this is just my opinion. Both his experience and mine were with someone who lies about their own wrongdoing, rewriting history in their own brains, so that they can either justify it or pretend they never did it.

Case studies of sociopaths that I'm familiar with, by contrast, are where they are caviler about the wrongs they committed. They have no need to rationalize their behavior or deny anything.

Those more formally trained in psychology: please correct me if I'm wrong.

My understanding of a sociopath is someone who sees others as more like like things than other people with feelings. Things to be manipulated or ignored depending on how they feel. They lack empathy and so often find themselves as successful business men because they trample all others without thinking "ooh that was bad".

The worrying thing here is that in America you seem to have an entire powerful political party made up soley of sociopaths.