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RE: Full circle
November 17, 2014 at 10:29 am
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2014 at 10:40 am by *Deidre*.)
Calling myself a ‘god’ (goddess)…no matter how I justify this…not only cheapens my value as a human, but it seems to imply that humans can’t do extraordinary things, rather that in order to do so, we must view ourselves as ‘gods/goddesses,’ ourselves. That is religion-speak.
It is ok to tell ourselves "this is it, we are human, and there’s nothing else beyond this,’’ because to do otherwise, cheapens the value of humankind and reality. There are no gods (at least no evidence for their existence)…we are not gods…and we don’t need to be in order to have amazingly productive and enriching lives. Religion distorts reality, makes it seem like reality isn't enough...and manipulates for its own gain. It can't ever be ''partly'' right.
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RE: Full circle
November 17, 2014 at 10:43 am
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2014 at 10:44 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 16, 2014 at 11:05 pm)IATIA Wrote: Dreams seem real at the time. Because they are.
Quote:And yes, I have done drugs in the past and the hallucinations seem just as real as anything else at the time.
Because they are.
Quote:I am not satisfied with 'normal' reality. I never have been and I have gone through various phases in an attempt to discover the truth.
Just because you are unsatisfied, does not mean that what you call "normal reality" is not the truth. Truth and satisfaction aren't equivalent. This should, however, give you cause to leverage extreme skepticism (before anyone else leverages it) about any further investigation you make into "alternative reality?"- you've essentially accepted that you have a powerful desire for things to be other than what they are...............
Quote:In case there is a true freethinker here, unbound by 'acceptable' thought patterns, this might be of interest.
Yup, you might have noticed that I offered you Tegmarks criticism of binary life and death thought experiments when you brought up free will?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Full circle
November 17, 2014 at 5:02 pm
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2014 at 5:22 pm by TreeSapNest.)
(November 16, 2014 at 12:24 pm)IATIA Wrote: Our reality as we know it now was a creation of our minds to enjoy life/existence in an entertaining way. We blocked our awareness of the fact that we are gods (else, what is the point?) and effectively became 'human'.
Is there a reality other than ourselves and the one we have created in our minds?
Why does lack of free will trouble you? You can and do still choose, it's the chemical reactions doing the choosing that troubles you?
What if we were within an infinity, rather than at the end of one? Would that seem impossible to you?
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RE: Full circle
November 17, 2014 at 9:21 pm
Short answer, yes.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: Full circle
November 18, 2014 at 11:27 am
(November 17, 2014 at 9:21 pm)IATIA Wrote: Short answer, yes. Yes to all three questions?
That's curious to me because it would seem that the same concerns would exist in the world from which we hide ourselves. The infinite past or finite spontaneous existence. Our thoughts and will being caused or spontaneous. If the imaginary world we create for ourselves has the same concerns, why hide from the real one?
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RE: Full circle
November 23, 2014 at 11:55 am
All this is based on free will being more than just a by product of physiological processes.
An awareness without a reality, I think, would be 'boring' and 'wanting', forcing a 'reality' to exist.
If all realities, all possibilities exist, perhaps our awareness just randomly 'drifted' into one. The problem with that thought line is infinite mass that was created how? However, if all possibilities exist and 'reality' is no more than our awareness/dream of 'reality' there would be no mass. All 'reality' would be nothing more than a dimensionless point of 'awareness'.
A dream has no mass in and of itself, yet it can seem just as 'real' at the time as our day to day reality seems.
By the way, Yes to all three.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: Full circle
November 23, 2014 at 10:47 pm
(November 16, 2014 at 1:58 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Why are the only options you're considering thoughts or magic?  I am open to other ideas.
Either a thought is a by product of a bio-chemical process or it is extraneous to these processes which would make it extraneous to the body.
What other possibilities are there?
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: Full circle
November 23, 2014 at 11:12 pm
(November 23, 2014 at 10:47 pm)IATIA Wrote: (November 16, 2014 at 1:58 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Why are the only options you're considering thoughts or magic? I am open to other ideas.
Either a thought is a by product of a bio-chemical process or it is extraneous to these processes which would make it extraneous to the body.
What other possibilities are there?
substance dualism
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RE: Full circle
November 24, 2014 at 8:59 am
(November 23, 2014 at 11:55 am)IATIA Wrote: A dream has no mass in and of itself, yet it can seem just as 'real' at the time as our day to day reality seems. You say that with such confidence, as though it were obviously true.....I'd say that a dream has mass in precisely the same way that our "day to day reality" has mass, and that both dreams and day to day reality are real.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Full circle
November 27, 2014 at 9:14 am
(November 24, 2014 at 8:59 am)Rhythm Wrote: ....I'd say that a dream has mass in precisely the same way that our "day to day reality" has mass, and that both dreams and day to day reality are real. I would need more information to argue that, for as it stands, I agree. I have a feeling however, that we have completely opposite ideas on that statement.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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