Sinners

[Darwinian]

According to mainstream Christianity, and correct me if I'm wrong, I was born a sinner. And even if I wasn't then I became one simply by virtue of being a human and leading a human life. This is the case not only for me, but for every other human on the face of the planet.

Why is it then that we have to ask for forgiveness for something that not only is absolutely no fault of our own but also is a quality or trait that was pre-destined for us before we were born?

[downbeatplumb]

According to mainstream Christianity, and correct me if I'm wrong, I was born a sinner. And even if I wasn't then I became one simply by virtue of being a human and leading a human life. This is the case not only for me, but for every other human on the face of the planet.

Why is it then that we have to ask for forgiveness for something that not only is absolutely no fault of our own but also is a quality or trait that was pre-destined for us before we were born?

Coz you is a bad bad boy

[fr0d0]

You were born naked and hungry and by some means you have to feed and clothe yourself with and without the help of parents. You're born selfish - babies are manipulative, greedy etc... you learn to coexist. No difference.

[LEDO]

According to mainstream Christianity, and correct me if I'm wrong, I was born a sinner. And even if I wasn't then I became one simply by virtue of being a human and leading a human life. This is the case not only for me, but for every other human on the face of the planet.

Why is it then that we have to ask for forgiveness for something that not only is absolutely no fault of our own but also is a quality or trait that was pre-destined for us before we were born?

The concept of original sin while is "Christian" is not biblical. It is never stated specifically anywhere in the Bible. It is a Pythagorean concept adopted by the Christians. The Jews used a goat to pay for their sins. The community would transfer their sins to a goat, then they would kill the goat. Hence the origin of the 'scape goat.

[Welsh cake]

Yet Christians can't justify why Mary, mother of Jesus, herself was preserved from original sin.

It raises moral implications since God CAN easily make someone born sinless then clearly there was no actual point in sending his son to Earth to bleed to death on a cross for mankind, apart from the fact that his 'all mightiness' can only get aroused by blood sacrifices, not redemption, of course.

[tavarish]

You were born naked and hungry and by some means you have to feed and clothe yourself with and without the help of parents. You're born selfish - babies are manipulative, greedy etc... you learn to coexist. No difference.

Research developmental stages in childhood and you'll realize that you have no idea what you're talking about in regards to selfishness and greed. It's a weak argument to make a distinction between an emotional response that manifests itself physically and psychologically and a supernatural pre-requisite that commands that we are all destined for eternal damnation if we don't accept the will of an imaginary superdad.

[fr0d0]

You say I'm wrong tavarish, and then visibly take my suggestion seriously. Make your mind up! If we're born selfish... as that is a trait that would assist survival, why can't this also be seen as a problem ethically as picked up in the major religions?

Take your ass hat off mate and come join the grown ups.

[tavarish]

You say I'm wrong tavarish, and then visibly take my suggestion seriously. Make your mind up! If we're born selfish... as that is a trait that would assist survival, why can't this also be seen as a problem ethically as picked up in the major religions?

Take your ass hat off mate and come join the grown ups.

In order for me to assess the validity of something, I have to take it seriously and look at it from different angles. That is the foundation of reasoned discussion. I assumed your position, then took it apart using common sense.

Grown ups don't believe fairy tales

[fr0d0]

But you didn't do anything to challenge the idea at all! Or did I miss something?? Your argument isn't weak it's non existent. Your accusation of error is disproved, yet you claim to "take it apart using common sense". Very odd.

[tavarish]

But you didn't do anything to challenge the idea at all! Or did I miss something?? Your argument isn't weak it's non existent. Your accusation of error is disproved, yet you claim to "take it apart using common sense". Very odd.

It's spoonfeeding sunday on AF! Yay!!!

Here's what you said:

You were born naked and hungry and by some means you have to feed and clothe yourself with and without the help of parents. You're born selfish - babies are manipulative, greedy etc... you learn to coexist. No difference.

Let's begin:

You're comparing physical needs to human emotion, then somehow making a correlation that it is in the same realm of people having to deal with eternal hellfire given to them by God. That's like me saying you have to purge yourself of the aliens in your body installed in you by lord Xenu millions of years ago. It's no different than learning to coexist.

It's a non-sequitur argument. It makes no sense.

One is a function of human nature and development and can be demonstrated, the other is inferred by indoctrinated dogma during childhood. Distinct differences. Somehow I don't think you'll see my point.

As far as the selfish and manipulative comment, here you go:

http://www.learningplaceonline.com/stage...rikson.htm