Antikythera mechanism possibly older than previously thought?

[Jackalope]

The technology and knowledge embodied in the antikythera device is AFAIK hinted at in no other known Greco roman artifact, nor referred to in writing. This suggests at least the technology, and probably the knowledge, were never recognized even in its own time as being significant, nor became any part of the corpus of knowledge transmitted either amongst the educated classes, or amongst tradesmen.

So antikythera device might well be a one off thing, the little appreciated flash of inspiration of one forgotten genius, like the tank or flying machine of Leonardo Da Vinci. It does not represent an entire lost branch of socialized or utilized knowledge and technology 17 centuries ahead of its time.

When I spoke of lost knowledge and technology, I was not referring *specifically* to the AK mechanism, but rather to the large corpus of knowledge that was lost, only to be "discovered" by Europeans many centuries later. The AK mechanism is but one example.

[LastPoet]

[Anomalocaris]

It would be hard to imagine any size able working body of knowledge in mathematics and a database of planetary behavior could have survived long and become any basis of civilization advancement of it is transmitted solely by word of mouth through master apprentice relationship.

If it were transmitted solely through master apprentice relationship, then the other vital ingredient of "advancement" - readiness of the society to de-esotericize it to make broader use of it, was not there. So antikythera device still represented only a curio, not basis of advancement, much less an actual advancement then lemanted as having been subsequently lost.

[Anomalocaris]

The technology and knowledge embodied in the antikythera device is AFAIK hinted at in no other known Greco roman artifact, nor referred to in writing. This suggests at least the technology, and probably the knowledge, were never recognized even in its own time as being significant, nor became any part of the corpus of knowledge transmitted either amongst the educated classes, or amongst tradesmen.

So antikythera device might well be a one off thing, the little appreciated flash of inspiration of one forgotten genius, like the tank or flying machine of Leonardo Da Vinci. It does not represent an entire lost branch of socialized or utilized knowledge and technology 17 centuries ahead of its time.

Bah! Humbug! The tinkerings of Leonardo are child's play compared to the amount of detailed maths and astronomy knowledge that are employed in the antikythera mechanism.

The amount of empirical astronomical data which the antikythera device attempted to mimic in analogue is indeed quite substantial . But it appears to me several ancient cultures must have amassed astronomical database sufficient to support at least individual parts of antikythera functionality. So I don't think it is all that amazing that in the Hellenistic world where there is free commerce in knowledge and ideas, this should all be brought together Into a single device.

As to the mathematical knowledge, I think we reflexively assume the builder of the antikythera device must have had an analytical understanding of the relationships between the different outputs expected of his device. But I am not sure if that is indeed essential for building such a device. There is not quantum leap between a gear and a gear train. The ratios between gears can be determined by trial and error. The idea of planetary gearing and a slotted gear wheel, while innovative, does not appear in principle to be beyond what can be arrived at with some inspired tinkering.

So I think while antikythera device behave in a mathematically complex way, it is an analogue device and therefore understanding of the underlying mathematical relationship is not absolutely essential to producing it, because the builder can tinker with the mechansim until he gets close to the desired analogue output. The work of faraday does not imply the existence of a maxwell.