Mossad in Dubai

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

It seems an 11 person Mossad hit squad has assassinated an Hamas commander in Dubai. He was wanted by the Israelis for war crimes.

My reaction:In Israel's place I would have done precisely the same thing. It's no accident the world knew who was responsible within 24 hours. Once again Israel has delivered the same message "we can get you ANYWHERE!" Just as it did with the Munich Olympic terrorists. Once again Israel will ignore any and all complaints from other nations.Also exactly what I would do in their place.


Moral? Hell no. Effective [and cheap] ? Very.


I've never understood why the US has not done exactly that with Osama Bin Laden.



http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=119...=351020205

[Pippy]

Because, I think, that Bin Laden is a scapegoat. He is more useful as a specter or boogyman. They got right on Hussein, because the relationship between Hussein and America was slightly different than the relationship between Osama and America...

I love the dichotomy of this. It's like capital punishment, but even more fallacious. You are a "war criminal" as per the opinion of the Israelites. So in a war action we will kill you. The act of war against Israel is a war crime, and the act of retribution by Israel is some kind of commendable strength...

I am not fond of other intelligence agencies operating covertly in soverign nations. Dubai is a long ways from the West Bank.

I just don't understand why one side is righteous and the other terrorists, when all I see is hatred and murder on all parts... What is the difference?

[Dotard]

One man's righteous freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

*shrugs*

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

I love the dichotomy of this. It's like capital punishment, but even more fallacious. You are a "war criminal" as per the opinion of the Israelites. So in a war action we will kill you. The act of war against Israel is a war crime, and the act of retribution by Israel is some kind of commendable strength...

I didn't claim the action was moral, neither has Israel,which does not comment on the activities of Mossad as a matter of policy. Nor did I say I liked or that I approve. I said I would do exactly the same in Israel's place,which I would, in heartbeat. I have no doubt whatsoever that CIA has done the kind of thing routinely,but without public awareness.

My comments were about realpolitik.

Terrorism is vile ,no matter who uses. It is also an ancient tool of war used by every side in every war. It always works. Perhaps why it is so popular with the weak against the strong.

9/11 was arguably the most successful use of terror in recorded history. The hysterical reaction of the populace and the cynical opportunism of the Bush administration led to the US becoming the most feared and hated nation on the planet..It has also been a powerful aide in the extreme Islamification of the middle east.

Is Osama Bin Laden a scapegoat? In that is he innocent? Probably not. In that his power and importance was grossly and deliberately exaggerated by the Bush administration? Probably.

[Pippy]

I abhor 'terrorism' as well, and cannot commend the Mossad or CIA or any intelligence service for using it. I think America was already the most hated, may be the most feared. Depends on who you ask, no matter how mean we are to Iran, they will always hate Israel foremost, and America for supporting Israel. But the average Arab, they might be a little upset about the 2-4 million dead Iraqis, and 2 million dead Afghanis.

Death to America!

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

But the average Arab, they might be a little upset about the 2-4 million dead Iraqis, and 2 million dead Afghanis.

Mate, I'm 'a little upset'. I think the people of those countries must be beside themselves with grief and rage.I have the utmost sympathy for them, and none for 'the coalition of the willing. (which includes Australia)

Of course I hate to see our young men and women killed for nothing. However, I neither respect nor support their actions as volunteer troops.

[Pippy]

Well said my friend.

They must be beside themselves with greif and rage. Absolutely. The War on Terror ™ was about as stupid an idea to me when pitched as the War on Drugs ®. I know how these things work, and a perpetual war in the name of perpetual peace is a line we were warned about. But there is a frustration about it as well. When this all started people were so scared in Canada. Are We Ready for Our Attack? screamed the headlines. It was very, very stupid. I kept trying to tell people that the brown people over there pose no threat to us. Certainly less of a threat than our own bankers and politicians and radicals and fanatics we have right here. But over time what does the war on terror beget? More terror. There is no threat (or was none) but as America and this so-called coalition of the willing (against the axis of evil) create terror in the middle east, there will be a threat. For every bomb we dropped, all the shock and awe, there are people so full of legitimate hatred and rage.

In the beginning the WoT was a lie, bold faced and unbelievable. Now, as we continue, the WoT will become the worst kind of self fulfilling prophecy, and will create generations of terror for the rest of us.

I will always be a peace activist. If an army, any army, marches down my street, it's on. But until that very day, no war! We are all cousins, no need for childish feuds.

Thanks.

[Dotard]

I will always be a peace activist. If an army, any army, marches down my street, it's on. But until that very day, no war! We are all cousins, no need for childish feuds.

Thanks.

It's 'childish feuds' unless it's happening on your street.

When they made that decision to fly those planes into the WTC, they brought it 'down our street'.

But hey, if it's two blocks over, who gives a shit eh? The people two blocks over do.


Out on a limb here, but knowing if my 'block' was hit by rampaging dumbasses that pippy would just stand by and avocate doing nothing, if his 'block' was hit I still would be more than willing to fight in his blocks defence or go after guilty parties. I believe this is the view of most Americans. (<--out on a limb part)

I must ask you pippy, is this what you would want? Would you prefer I (or we) just chant 'peace tunes' and sing songs of love instead of coming to you and your loved ones defence?

---

Hamas is a terrorist organization.

That is debateable. There are those who would argue Israel is a terrorist organization also.

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

[TheMultiverseTheory]

The world is changing so fast, and we're all running to catch up. I don't want to jump to any conclusions, but look. Violence and man... two things conjoined by millions of years of evolution, have suddenly been thrown into the mix of the new idea of critical thinking. How can we possibly have the slightest idea of what to expect?

It is natural that these things happen. It does in the wild, and it is no different in "humans". You may see yourself above the animal kingdom, but you're only part of it. We thrive off of our instincts, even if they don't seem obvious. Some of those instincts tell us to eradicate opposition that look or seem different to us. It allows for your genes to travel into the future, to spread your kind's imprinted data. Include Religion into the dialogue and you've got a recipe that calls not only for destruction and murder, but the mass delusion of explaining how it can be justified to those involved.

People aren't supposed to murder other people. It isn't in our built in ideas of morality. The basics, treat others as you would like yourself. Murdering your kind extinguishes your kind from the genetic plains. Don't you see the danger, everyone, inherent in what it's doing here? Genetic power is the most awesome force the planet's ever witnessed, yet Religion corrupts it like a kid that's found his dad's gun.

Now, I don't know what we can do about the despicable countries involved here, but perhaps some do deserve to be eradicated from the lineage of human kind. Perhaps we should let them destroy one another into extinction, or maybe we should burn their genes from the pool of mankind altogether. All I know is, stupidity breeds destruction and we're only seeing the death pangs of the revolt morons are making in a world that is advancing faster than they wish it.

If there is one thing the history of evolution and Homo sapiens has taught us it's that life will not be contained. Life breaks free, expands to new territory, and crashes through barriers, painfully, maybe even dangerously. Religion tries to contain that fire in a box so tight that anything inside will suffocate in its own destructive forces. Life can not thrive under the the thrall of religious (un)thought, but even without it, life will find a way to expand, and conquer until it has found a stability.

[AtheistPhil]

It is natural that these things happen. It does in the wild, and it is no different in "humans". You may see yourself above the animal kingdom, but you're only part of it. We thrive off of our instincts, even if they don't seem obvious. Some of those instincts tell us to eradicate opposition that look or seem different to us. It allows for your genes to travel into the future, to spread your kind's imprinted data. Include Religion into the dialogue and you've got a recipe that calls not only for destruction and murder, but the mass delusion of explaining how it can be justified to those involved.

It's not true all the time. For example Jainism emphasizes non-violence and tolerance to the extreme with no exception whatsoever (to my knowledge). And for a lot of religions it depends on the interpretations of the holy books by believers.

People aren't supposed to murder other people. It isn't in our built in ideas of morality. The basics, treat others as you would like yourself. Murdering your kind extinguishes your kind from the genetic plains.

But you said:

Some of those instincts tell us to eradicate opposition that look or seem different to us.

So the basic morality you're talking about only works with people that you think to be like you (genetically, physically or ideologically) or did I miss something ?

Don't you see the danger, everyone, inherent in what it's doing here? Genetic power is the most awesome force the planet's ever witnessed, yet Religion corrupts it like a kid that's found his dad's gun.

Religion doesn't corrupt it, it only uses it to its advantage, convincing people that this or that is your enemy. The same tactics are used by powerful groups to control people (nationalism, scapegoat). Those groups redefines the meaning of " your kind" (as highlighted above) to form an homogeneous group and control it.

Now, I don't know what we can do about the despicable countries involved here, but perhaps some do deserve to be eradicated from the lineage of human kind. Perhaps we should let them destroy one another into extinction, or maybe we should burn their genes from the pool of mankind altogether. All I know is, stupidity breeds destruction and we're only seeing the death pangs of the revolt morons are making in a world that is advancing faster than they wish it.

--->"calls not only for destruction and murder, but the mass delusion of explaining how it can be justified to those involved."
You just redefined your kind as to not include those genes, and you're trying to dehumanize those people.