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RE: Nativity Scene in my town department building
December 26, 2014 at 3:07 pm
(December 22, 2014 at 4:43 pm)Doggey75 Wrote: So, I'm back at least for little while and have a concerning issue. My town's deparment building (basically city hall I think) has a nativity scene on their lawn. I first tried calling them. I confirmed it was a government owned building and I asked why they had it. They said it was for Chrismas. I told them it wasn't allowed. A government can not endorse a religion. They then come up with an excuse saying they are going to be putting up a Hanukkah symbol up to. Which doesn't make a difference. When I told the lady on the phone this. She dropped the conversion clearly was mad and told me to write a letter to the mayor. From what I know, writing a letter would get me no where. So, I tried contacting Freedom From Religion and got no answer. So, I'm coming on the forums for some advice on what to do. The problem that I see is I'm 17. I'm pretty certain my parents will be against or neutral to this so I will not have an 18+ help and it's drawing very near to Christmas.
Any decorations that they put up would be an acknowledgement of Christmas, which is the celebration of the birth of Christ. Why not let us celebrate our holiday? I work for the county and we had Halloween decorations all over the place. It wasn't my cup of tea, but I didn't go around complaining about it.
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RE: Nativity Scene in my town department building
December 26, 2014 at 3:22 pm
(This post was last modified: December 26, 2014 at 5:03 pm by Strider.)
(December 26, 2014 at 3:07 pm)Lek Wrote: Any decorations that they put up would be an acknowledgement of Christmas, which is the celebration of the birth of Christ. Why not let us celebrate our holiday? I work for the county and we had Halloween decorations all over the place. It wasn't my cup of tea, but I didn't go around complaining about it. To you it is a celebration of the birth of Christ. I celebrate Christmas as a non-Christian and for me the holiday has nothing to do with anything remotely religious. Non-Christians all over celebrate Christmas. It's only about Christ if you want it to be, and if that's how you interpret the holiday then that's cool because you're free to believe whatever you want. The issue is not you celebrating your holiday. The real issue is a religious display on public property. Odds are they would deny another depiction or scene with origins in a different religion and that is the problem. Of course, I cannot say that with certainty, but I doubt they'd allow anything else.
I don't think anyone considers Halloween a religious holiday so there aren't any issues with those decorations because they're not religious in nature. However, if there were displays of a dogmatic nature related to Halloween on public property, I'd be on your side.
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." ~ Benjamin Franklin
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RE: Nativity Scene in my town department building
December 26, 2014 at 4:14 pm
(December 22, 2014 at 5:00 pm)alpha male Wrote: Actually they just need some secular decorations up. Secular decorations are a lack of religious decoration.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
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RE: Nativity Scene in my town department building
December 26, 2014 at 5:26 pm
(This post was last modified: December 26, 2014 at 5:27 pm by Lek.)
(December 26, 2014 at 3:22 pm)Strider Wrote: To you it is a celebration of the birth of Christ. I celebrate Christmas as a non-Christian and for me the holiday has nothing to do with anything remotely religious. Non-Christians all over celebrate Christmas. It's only about Christ if you want it to be, and if that's how you interpret the holiday then that's cool because you're free to believe whatever you want. The issue is not you celebrating your holiday. The real issue is a religious display on public property. Odds are they would deny another depiction or scene with origins in a different religion and that is the problem. Of course, I cannot say that with certainty, but I doubt they'd allow anything else.
I don't think anyone considers Halloween a religious holiday so there aren't any issues with those decorations because they're not religious in nature. However, if there were displays of a dogmatic nature related to Halloween on public property, I'd be on your side. Nativity scenes are not only a religious symbol, but a symbol of our christian heritage in the US. We should be allowed to celebrate our christian heritage the same as any other heritage. Is it also not okay to celebrate "national hispanic heritage week" and "black history month"? There is supposed to be no discrimination based on race, color or nationality. So should we ban these observances by government agencies?
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RE: Nativity Scene in my town department building
December 26, 2014 at 5:31 pm
(This post was last modified: December 26, 2014 at 5:32 pm by IATIA.)
(December 26, 2014 at 5:26 pm)Lek Wrote: Nativity scenes are not only a religious symbol, but a symbol of our christian heritage in the US. The USA DOES NOT have a christian heritage. The forefathers were atheists and deists. They wanted absolutely nothing to do with christianity. Remember, they were fresh out of a christian ruled world.
Can anyone say INQUISITION? Our forefathers had their fill of christianity.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: Nativity Scene in my town department building
December 26, 2014 at 5:56 pm
(December 26, 2014 at 5:31 pm)IATIA Wrote: (December 26, 2014 at 5:26 pm)Lek Wrote: Nativity scenes are not only a religious symbol, but a symbol of our christian heritage in the US. The USA DOES NOT have a christian heritage. The forefathers were atheists and deists. They wanted absolutely nothing to do with christianity. Remember, they were fresh out of a christian ruled world.
Can anyone say INQUISITION? Our forefathers had their fill of christianity.
Are you telling me that none of our forefathers were christians? What's your source for that statement? Which ones were atheists? They didn't have their of fill christianity, but rather of a government which required them to follow a specific denomination and persecuted them if they didn't. Christianity has been the belief of the majority of Americans since the foundation of the nation. The heritage of the nation is unquestionably heavily influenced by christianity.
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RE: Nativity Scene in my town department building
December 26, 2014 at 9:39 pm
Christmas trees are not Christian. Neither is Santa Claus. The nativity is. It's not like American Christmas is a heavy-handed religious affair. Everyone likes presents and cocoa, right? 
I don't see any harm in Christians putting up displays of their religion on/around Christmas time. Nor do I see any harm in Hindus putting up statues of Shiva (or whatever) for Diwali, or Jews putting up big menorahs. And, in communities that have been traditionally a Christian majority, I don't see any problem with the cities themselves putting up displays, either.
Ya know, not everything that happens around us has to be a lightning rod for feigned moral outrage. Sometimes a candy cane is just a candy cane.
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