The main points of Christianity?

[emilynghiem]

The main point of Christianity is redemption.
Didn't see that in your list above.
Wonder why.

Hi professor
redemption is a step in Restorative Justice.
Not everyone understands the term redemption.
Can you spell it out in secular terms?

if we can spell out the steps in Restorative Justice,
including forgiveness healing correction and restitution,
we can align terms that Christians use and ones that make sense to secular users.

I tend to use the terms above in bold ^
I find the term redemption is more relative to different people
and would ask to have that spelled out more specifically. can you pls help? Thanks!

---

Justice is not yet proven to exist, and certainly hasn't come back for all humanity. Same with Jesus.

Nitpicking is something I do, and this is something I thought I'd make a small comment on. There is a difference between saying Justice is not shown to exist and Jesus is not shown to exist. Justice is a concept, a value that we hold as the basis of morality. It's not a physical thing. Saying you can't prove justice exists is like saying you can't prove math exists, or you can't prove ethics exist.

Jesus was a person, or a group of people who were congealed into one via mythologizing history. Either he existed or he didn't. It's pretty clear that the Jesus of the gospels DID NOT exist, but did a philosopher of his type exist at the beginning of Christianity to give birth to the figure portrayed in the gospels? Possibly. There were a lot of them in the area at the time.

As to the OP, I've given it some thought. First, I don't think those are the main points of Christianity. Some of them aren't even implied by Jesus. Not wanting people to be covetous and wanting people to help the poor is not the same as telling people to be starving beggars. The points listed don't prove the religion false, the fact that none of it happened does that just fine enough.

Hi Natachan
I am saying that Jesus represents or embodies the spirit of Justice.
Maybe this is a different angle for teaching the meaning of Jesus for secular gentiles under natural laws. But it's the same Jesus.

When I teach math, some students just want to work the symbols and get the right answer. Other teachers and students are all into this weird way of using visuals to count the values and show what is being moved around. I don't need that and can't stand that way. But the math works the same, whether you focus on the symbols or you tangibly see touch and move the physical quantities around.

I notice many people complain they don't recognize the other way of doing math which looks foreign to them, and their brains just don't process that way.

I am guessing the same is happening when I go around explaining that Jesus represents Justice on a collective abstract level and doesn't have to be symbolized in personified form with all the religious ritual attached. I didn't understand that way of teaching it, so I explain in secular natural terms that make sense to me. And I relate to other secular minds more like mine who can grasp the same concepts and process that way.

the other way always seems a bit mystifying to me, but I understand that's how other people relate and get it. I prefer the secular explanation that i find more practical to real life application and change in the real world I can see, feel and appreciate.

Thanks! I don't think it is fair at all to only teach Jesus one way, and judge people for not getting it that way if our minds don't process like that.
I'd rather form a consensus that Jesus can be taught this other way for secular gentiles, and then reconcile the two ways of teaching it where we all agree it's the same concept and process.

[Godscreated]

Hello all segments of humanity,

These are the main points of Christianity in which I have put together concerning my proposed manuscript(book):

1. Jesus commands all believers (Body of Christ), NOT to raise armies for self-defense! No standing military! (Hypocritical to even be in the military in the first place). Atleast, Islam commands Muslims to fight(Qital=Actual Arabic word for physical fighting),(Don't worry, I will also critique Islam in another post).

2. Jesus commands all believer to struggle economically to the point of death! (The rewards of the hereafter is much better than this present life! by the way, this was hinted in the Book of Acts).

3. Jesus commands believers to not build a temple in Jerusalem nor support its rebuilding because he says in the Book of Revelation(Also hinted in the Book of John) that HE is THE TEMPLE! (What is the point of Zionism??? The previous eludes to the conclusion that Zionism is counter to the true teachings of Jesus or what is printed in the New Testament atleast).

4. All the previous points are the precursors of TRUE CHRISTIANITY because these are also signifiers of Jesus' supposed return. In other words, it is the final sign that his message is supreme and above all other messages because through death there is victory ...ofcourse according to the teachings of Paul (and even John in the Book of Revelation).

I will not point out the obvious contradictions between Paul and John(the subject of eating foods sacrificed to idols which were throughout the Roman empire), in which I have found between them. I just wanted to show the inherent and impossible task of Christianity within this modern time template. There is ofcourse the command of women not to speak in congregations and the permissibility of slavery by Paul.

We all know the contradictory actions throughout the historical timeline: Crusades, Inquisitions, Zionism, and the Prosperity Gospel(which is simply the permission of the hoarding of wealth by supposed Christians which negates the goal of sacrificial death to return to Jesus Holy spirit).

I will now post a critical question(s)...

Sounds like you've re-written the Bible to suit your desire to dismiss the truths within. Well that's not a possibility, truth is what it is and can't be changed, why not study the scriptures instead of skimming over them to cherry pick.

GC

[Jenny A]

As I read the Gospels, and Paul for that matter, the second coming should have been about 60 to 90 A.D. (before the generation listening to Jesus died) and nothing like it has happened then or since. However, current Christians obviously don't read it that way, or there wouldn't be any current Christians. One of the many reasons there are so many sects of Christians is that there is no straight forward way to get around Luke 23:32-32:

So you also, when you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near. "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place.

And Mark 9:1

Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

So they all finagle their way around the problem differently.

[Natachan]

Hi Natachan
I am saying that Jesus represents or embodies the spirit of Justice.
Maybe this is a different angle for teaching the meaning of Jesus for secular gentiles under natural laws. But it's the same Jesus.

When I teach math, some students just want to work the symbols and get the right answer. Other teachers and students are all into this weird way of using visuals to count the values and show what is being moved around. I don't need that and can't stand that way. But the math works the same, whether you focus on the symbols or you tangibly see touch and move the physical quantities around.

I notice many people complain they don't recognize the other way of doing math which looks foreign to them, and their brains just don't process that way.

I am guessing the same is happening when I go around explaining that Jesus represents Justice on a collective abstract level and doesn't have to be symbolized in personified form with all the religious ritual attached. I didn't understand that way of teaching it, so I explain in secular natural terms that make sense to me. And I relate to other secular minds more like mine who can grasp the same concepts and process that way.

the other way always seems a bit mystifying to me, but I understand that's how other people relate and get it. I prefer the secular explanation that i find more practical to real life application and change in the real world I can see, feel and appreciate.

Thanks! I don't think it is fair at all to only teach Jesus one way, and judge people for not getting it that way if our minds don't process like that.
I'd rather form a consensus that Jesus can be taught this other way for secular gentiles, and then reconcile the two ways of teaching it where we all agree it's the same concept and process.

I'm afraid I don't understand this. Was Jesus a person? Or is he a fictional construct used to personify some abstract concept?

[CristW]

Hello all who have responded,

1. The actions of anyone does not prove a belief to be the correct belief. Therefore, Restorative Justice is not relevant to the thread. Nor is the subject of salvation because it is connected to the three points offered in the 1st post. Restorative Justice is a COMMON THEME, why mention it? For example, Restorative Justice would exist in ancient Babylonian culture or the Persian empire because there exist a form of government.

2. Each point was derived from the New Testament themes. Each point has verses connected to it -

a. Anti-War/Anti-military message to his followers (Matthew 5:21, Matthew 5:38-45, Matthew 10:28, Matthew 10:38, 1st John 3:11-15).
b. Struggle economically until his return (Matthew 6:19-25, Acts 4:32-37, 2nd Timothy 6:9-10).
c. Jesus is the Temple (John 2:19-21, Hebrews 9:11, Revelation 21:22).
d. The previous are the characteristics of his TRUE followers before his supposed return ( Hebrews 3:12, Hebrews 7:13, Hebrews 9:27-28).

*This means that most and all Christians would fail the above LITMUS TEST!!!, too many Christians are zionists or zionistic and also follow the prosperity gospel!!!*

3. What is meant by "historical timeline"??? Simply, it is impossible to be a "Christian" in this materialistic world or realm. Furthermore, what is truly meant is that Christianity is fantasy and created in the minds of men. It is something away from reality:

a. We, as humans, need defense and a standing military!
b. We, as humans, need to accumulate wealth!

Nevertheless, we observe that ZIONISTS have done the previous two points already. As already pointed out that ZIONISM and CHRISTIANITY are in opposition of each other. So, we have a contradiction and an absurdity.

c. If Jesus is the Temple then the writers of the New Testament wanted to make sure that the new Christian movement did not have similar goals as the Jewish zealots. It was the Jewish zealots and those of Jewish Millennialist persuasion (Flavius Josephus) who dreamt of the rebuilding of the Temple. While, Paul in the books of Hebrews and Romans discussed the formation of a new "man"(The Christian sect) which would do away from the goal of rebuilding a new temple(It was spiritualized through Jesus himself in which the Book of Revelation as this message was repeated).

d. For Jesus to return, there has to be Christians which fit the previous two points (Revelation 3:2-3).

*However, there are other indicators which suggest that the writers of the New Testament expected Jesus return 70 years after the Roman destruction of the Temple - 140 A.D.! In opposition to the Jewish Zealots idea of the rebuilding of the Temple in 140 A.D.! because they expected another political power to remove the Romans just as the Persian empire destroyed the Babylonians (Ezra, Nehemiah era). In other words, they expected a repeat of history (Matthew 24:34).

[Godscreated]

Hello all who have responded,

1. ..... Nor is the subject of salvation because it is connected to the three points offered in the 1st post.

Salvation comes before all else, you leave it out and you have nothing, like I said stop cherry picking and study to find truth.

2. Each point was derived from the New Testament themes. Each point has verses connected to it -

So, do you really believe the Christians here will accept your misrepresentation of what we live by.

a. Anti-War/Anti-military message to his followers (Matthew 5:21, Matthew 5:38-45, Matthew 10:28, Matthew 10:38, 1st John 3:11-15).

Matt. 5:38-45, a speaking of love everyone for the Christian, has nothing to do with war. This deals strictly with spiritual matters, that is being attacked for being a follower of Christ.

Matt. 10:28, again spiritual matters has nothing to do with the physical body as you are saying.

Matt. 10:38, you should have included 39, they are completely tied to each other and again spiritual matters.

1st John 3:11-15, this is again about Christians only, it has nothing to do with dealing with the world, it's how we are to deal with each other, that's why the reference to Cain and Able (brothers). We are commanded how to handle the world also.

b. Struggle economically until his return (Matthew 6:19-25,

Quoting from sources that do not know what they are saying is a good way to make you look very dumb, you have screwed up and added verses here that do not apply. As for the rest it is about living as good of life as we can in serves of God. Jesus is referring to the real life we will live for eternity.

Acts 4:32-37,

This is where you show your lack of Biblical understanding and knowledge. First, the group was putting together the church and they were not commanded to sale their property, those that did sale was doing it to help others, just as Christ had instructed to do to help other brothers and sisters. If you had read on, (if you've read at all) you would have included the part that shows the Christians were not commanded to, they did it out of their love for others. Also, if you knew Jewish law those that sold the land would have it returned after seven years, this was to preserve the ownership of the areas given to each tribe.

2nd Timothy 6:9-10).

There are only 4 chapters in 2nd Timothy, please supply the correct verses.

c. Jesus is the Temple (John 2:19-21, Hebrews 9:11, Revelation 21:22).

I'm not even sure what you are trying to say here, unless it's that the Christians worship of God come through Christ.

d. The previous are the characteristics of his TRUE followers before his supposed return ( Hebrews 3:12, Hebrews 7:13, Hebrews 9:27-28).

Because you do not know what the scriptures say and are not a Christian you couldn't possibly know why someone is or isn't a Christian. You've shown your or someones lack of Biblical understanding.

*This means that most and all Christians would fail the above LITMUS TEST!!!, too many Christians are zionists or zionistic and also follow the prosperity gospel!!!*

The gospels do not teach Christian prosperity as some supposedly say they do. It also doesn't teach Christian poverty either. What it does teach the Christian is to lean on the One who can change your life.
The litmus test as you put it, is for the Christian church to help separate the sheep from the wolves. God himself knows the hearts of every man, woman and child, He needs no test requirements to know who we are, this shows your complete lack of understanding of the scriptures.

3. What is meant by "historical timeline"??? Simply, it is impossible to be a "Christian" in this materialistic world or realm. Furthermore, what is truly meant is that Christianity is fantasy and created in the minds of men. It is something away from reality:

Historical time line? It's not impossible for Christians to live in this materialistic world, we are instructed how to live in it without being a part of it's evil. You have no idea what your talking about and further more I do not know where you got such nonsense, I'm seriously doubting it's from your own mind. Why, because of the scriptures you've posted and your complete lack of understanding of them.

a. We, as humans, need defense and a standing military!

True, because of the evil the world has in it and Christians are not asked to stay out of defending against such evils.

b. We, as humans, need to accumulate wealth!

That might be your need or addiction, but that in no way applies to many people believers or unbelievers. Many people have greater and better agendas for their lives in this world, again this applies to unbelievers and believers.

Nevertheless, we observe that ZIONISTS have done the previous two points already. As already pointed out that ZIONISM and CHRISTIANITY are in opposition of each other. So, we have a contradiction and an absurdity.

The only absurdity here is your conclusion, you started out with false assumptions (those you believe), then you misrepresent the scriptures and twist them to try and prove your false assumption, which you've completely failed at. When one doesn't know the law of the land they are not allowed to be lawyers, one who does not understand scriptures, which it's obvious you do not, are not taken to be seriously capable of define them or the people who live by them.

c. If Jesus is the Temple then the writers of the New Testament wanted to make sure that the new Christian movement did not have similar goals as the Jewish zealots.

Actually their agendas are basically the same, just through different ways.

It was the Jewish zealots and those of Jewish Millennialist persuasion (Flavius Josephus) who dreamt of the rebuilding of the Temple. While, Paul in the books of Hebrews and Romans discussed the formation of a new "man"(The Christian sect) which would do away from the goal of rebuilding a new temple

The Jews see the temple as the real place to worship, you left out Jesus conversation with the woman at the well, where Jesus tells her about the way people will truly worship, through Him because we believe in a risen savior. There will be a new temple.

(It was spiritualized through Jesus himself in which the Book of Revelation as this message was repeated).

d. For Jesus to return, there has to be Christians which fit the previous two points (Revelation 3:2-3).

Wrong, you have twisted scripture to a degree of showing your stupidity, why would you subject yourself to such a pitiful thing. Your making an assumption you have no proof of, Christ will return to take home His people and finish the judgement of all mankind.

*However, there are other indicators which suggest that the writers of the New Testament expected Jesus return 70 years after the Roman destruction of the Temple - 140 A.D.! In opposition to the Jewish Zealots idea of the rebuilding of the Temple in 140 A.D.! because they expected another political power to remove the Romans just as the Persian empire destroyed the Babylonians (Ezra, Nehemiah era). In other words, they expected a repeat of history (Matthew 24:34).

The Jewish people were expecting a Messiah that would free them from Roman rule, not another government. The scripture tell us this was never the intent and the early Christians did not believe this. Paul did expect an earlier return of Christ, he changed before he died. The verses you used do not in the least show that Christ or the disciples called for an early return. The mistake Paul made was his misunderstanding of what the disciples told him.

GC

[TubbyTubby]

Salvation comes before all else, you leave it out and you have nothing, like I said stop cherry picking and study to find truth.
GC

You know I find it equally amusing and repulsively dishonest when a christer accuses someone of cherry picking! You CANNOT believe your fucked up story book WITHOUT cherry picking.

Then of course, it is GC...

[h4ym4n]

Salvation comes before all else, you leave it out and you have nothing, like I said stop cherry picking and study to find truth.
GC

You know I find it equally amusing and repulsively dishonest when a christer accuses someone of cherry picking! You CANNOT believe your fucked up story book WITHOUT cherry picking.

Then of course, it is GC...

GC is special.

[Hoopington]

Hello all who have responded,

1. ..... Nor is the subject of salvation because it is connected to the three points offered in the 1st post.

Salvation comes before all else, you leave it out and you have nothing, like I said stop cherry picking and study to find truth.

Chapter and verse please. Not some vague bollocks about salvation being important, I want the verse and chapter that tells the reader that salvation comes before everything, including God.

[Homeless Nutter]

Salvation comes before all else, you leave it out and you have nothing,[...]

Of course. It would be unreasonable to expect Christians to believe anything, without the prospect of a reward. Business is business...