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Non-overlapping magesteria
February 17, 2015 at 10:50 am
This term was mentioned in another thread.
Quote:Non-overlapping magisteria (NOMA) is the view advocated by Stephen Jay Gould that science and religion each have "a legitimate magisterium, or domain of teaching authority," and these two domains do not overlap
...
"the magisterium of science covers the empirical realm: what the Universe is made of (fact) and why does it work in this way (theory). The magisterium of religion extends over questions of ultimate meaning and moral value. These two magisteria do not overlap, nor do they encompass all inquiry (consider, for example, the magisterium of art and the meaning of beauty)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-overlap...agisterial
It seems to me that "purpose" and "beauty" are within the magisterium of science too. For example, science can measure psychological wellbeing, productivity, emotional reaction, etc.
Take the example of cooking recipes. Science can measure the quality of recipes in various ways. One recipe might be nutritious. Another recipe might have mass appeal...
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RE: Non-overlapping magesteria
February 17, 2015 at 10:53 am
How about polygraphing religious leaders to see if they are lying while preaching ??
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RE: Non-overlapping magesteria
February 17, 2015 at 11:01 am
I really detest the whole idea of NOMA. A lame attempt to handwave away the ridiculous claims of (specifically) the Bible.
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RE: Non-overlapping magesteria
February 17, 2015 at 11:33 am
Ah yes, Non-Overlapping Magisteria. If you listen really closely when someone seriously uses that term, you can actually hear the honest part of their brain speaking too, saying "please don't examine my religious beliefs too closely, you'll break them!"
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RE: Non-overlapping magesteria
February 17, 2015 at 11:40 am
(February 17, 2015 at 10:50 am)watchamadoodle Wrote: It seems to me that "purpose" and "beauty" are within the magisterium of science too. For example, science can measure psychological wellbeing, productivity, emotional reaction, etc.
Take the example of cooking recipes. Science can measure the quality of recipes in various ways. One recipe might be nutritious. Another recipe might have mass appeal...
I don't think science is equipped to address æsthetics, or subjective matters like taste. I also don't think science provides "purpose" to anything.
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RE: Non-overlapping magesteria
February 17, 2015 at 11:46 am
(February 17, 2015 at 10:50 am)watchamadoodle Wrote: This term was mentioned in another thread.
Quote:Non-overlapping magisteria (NOMA) is the view advocated by Stephen Jay Gould that science and religion each have "a legitimate magisterium, or domain of teaching authority," and these two domains do not overlap
...
"the magisterium of science covers the empirical realm: what the Universe is made of (fact) and why does it work in this way (theory). The magisterium of religion extends over questions of ultimate meaning and moral value. These two magisteria do not overlap, nor do they encompass all inquiry (consider, for example, the magisterium of art and the meaning of beauty)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-overlap...agisterial
It seems to me that "purpose" and "beauty" are within the magisterium of science too. For example, science can measure psychological wellbeing, productivity, emotional reaction, etc.
Take the example of cooking recipes. Science can measure the quality of recipes in various ways. One recipe might be nutritious. Another recipe might have mass appeal...
That's like saying lying and telling truth belong to "non-overlapping magisteria". The acts may belong in different magisteria of behavior and ethics, but the subjects upon which they act are identical sets.
Science would do nothing if it did not step ever deeper into the so called "magisterium" of religion, and religion would have no followers if it didn't assert nonsense about things in the magisterium of science.
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RE: Non-overlapping magesteria
February 17, 2015 at 12:03 pm
Would Gould then say that any claims made by religions that can be tested empirically are just "metaphorical"? Such as..I dunno...the changing of crackers into flesh or the spontaneous reanimation of 3-days-dead tissue?
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
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RE: Non-overlapping magesteria
February 17, 2015 at 12:12 pm
(This post was last modified: February 17, 2015 at 12:15 pm by watchamadoodle.)
I did think of an example of a NOMA (possibly): Imagine a religion that makes no claims except that our "souls" go to a "paradise" after death. That "paradise" is completely isolated from the natural world except for the flow of dead "souls".
Most religions make claims that can be examined using science, philosophy, archaeology, etc. Even the simplified religion I described above utilizes definitions of "souls" and "paradise" that might be vulnerable.
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RE: Non-overlapping magesteria
February 17, 2015 at 12:14 pm
Well right off the bat the existence of a 'soul' is something that must be proven...and the only tools we have to prove the existence of something are surprise, surprise, the tools of scientific investigation.
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RE: Non-overlapping magesteria
February 17, 2015 at 12:27 pm
(February 17, 2015 at 12:03 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Would Gould then say that any claims made by religions that can be tested empirically are just "metaphorical"? Such as..I dunno...the changing of crackers into flesh or the spontaneous reanimation of 3-days-dead tissue? That's the thing I've noticed about NOMA - it might be a valid view in some cases, but many religious people use it for everything.
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